More Facts You Should Know About Mental Health, Physical Health, And Lyme Disease! – with Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer


Today on the Gut Health Reset Podcast, we are again revisiting the topic of Lyme disease and how it can be connected to mental health. We’ve discussed how certain gut issues can be associated with this chronic disease before, and today we are continuing to cover the physical and mental health issues surrounding Lyme.


This episode will continue exploring mental health, diet, environmental toxicity, the problems caused by excess sugar, and more with returning guest Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer! 


We answer these questions:

– Is there a mental health epidemic?

– What has triggered the rise of physical and mental health issues?

– What PANS symptoms should you look out for in your children?

– Is there a link between the “highly sensitive child”/sensory disorders and Lyme disease?

– What is the link between sugar and cardiovascular diseases? 

– And more!


Still want to learn more? Schedule with Dr. Barter today!

Calm Neurotransmitters


About Dr. Kinderlehrer:

Daniel A. Kinderlehrer, MD, is a nationally recognized physician with expertise in the fields of nutrition, allergy, environmental medicine, Lyme disease, and the healing of mind-body-spirit as a unified whole. He co-founded The New England Center for Holistic Medicine in Newbury, Massachusetts, and has taught extensively, including practitioner training courses at the Omega Institute, The National Institute of Behavioral Medicine, and the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society. He created and organized the Lyme Fundamentals course which is presented annually at the International Lyme and Associated Diseases conferences. He is the author of several review articles in medical journals and the Lyme Times. His integrated medical practice in Denver, Colorado, focuses on the diagnosis and treatment of tick-borne disease. 

You can find him at: 

Get his book at: 

And on Twitter at: 

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Dr. Ann-Marie Barter is a Functional Medicine and Chiropractic Doctor at Alternative Family Medicine & Chiropractic. She is the clinic founder of Alternative Family Medicine & Chiropractic that has two offices: one in Longmont and one in Denver. They treat an array of health conditions overlooked or under-treated by conventional medicine, called the “grey zone”.



Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: What’s happened to the American diet after that is that people went on much higher carb and higher sugar diets, and it’s since then that we have seen a astronomical rise in obesity and diabetes. I mean, astronomical. So sugar has by itself suppresses the immune system. But it also will result in these insulin responses, which increase inflammation and just make symptoms worse and harder to control.

Intro: Are you struggling with bloating, gas constipation and fatigue, but don’t know what’s causing these problems? The Gut Health Reset Podcast with Dr. Ann-Marie Barter dives deep into the root causes behind these issues that start in the gut. This podcast will give you the knowledge you need to heal your gut and reset your health.

Dr. Ann-Marie Barter: Today on the Gut Health Reset Podcast, we are covering mental health. We’re covering depression and anxiety of the tea, which are very common problems that present in practice. A lot of folks struggle with this. We’re also going to go into other disorders such as OCD, suicidal ideations. Bipolar addictions and pants syndrome, as well as eating disorders, specifically anorexia. And we’re going to link these back to Lyme disease and how Lyme can be a contributing factor in some of these issues. Thank you so much for joining us here today on the Gut Health Reset Podcast. I am your host Dr. Ann-Marie Barter, and today I have a returning guest, Dr. Daniel Kindler. He was on previously talking about gut health and Lyme disease. I’m going to actually put that down below in the comment section so that everybody has access to that because it’s a wonderful episode. He also has written a book called Recovery from Lyme Disease. I’m personally an avid reader. I think the book is great. I’ve probably read it three times, maybe more. It’s an amazing read, especially for anybody that thinks they have Lyme or has been diagnosed with Lyme disease. It’s a great resource. Dr. Daniel Kandola, M.D., is a nationally recognized physician with expertize in the fields of nutrition, allergy, environmental medicine, Lyme disease and the healing of the body, mind and spirit as a unified whole. He co-founded the New England Center for Holistic Medicine in Massachusetts and has taught extensively including practitioner training courses at the Omega Institute and Nash, the National Institute of Behavioral Medicine, the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society. He created and organized the Line Fundamentals Course, which is presented annually at the International Lyme and Associated Diseases conferences. He is the author of several review articles in medical journals and Lyme times. His integrative medicine practice in Denver, Colorado, focuses on the diagnosis and treatment of tick borne diseases

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: in the past hundred years. A real change in our health and I mean both physical and mental health, and they don’t even separate those two. There have been so many changes in the human condition and in the western world, in United States in particular. So just think about it when we’re talking about wholesale changes in our diet with, among other things, the sugar in our diet going up like the like a reverse ebullience here and but also nutrient depletion because of soil depletion and so on. We’ve turned to having tons more carbs. That’s really since the since the 70s or so. And now we have all this diabetes and obesity that we didn’t have before then people don’t remember. But a lot of other things have changed. Look at all the additives they’re putting, you know, you read the ingredients in a processed food and you can’t pronounce after them and then think of the hundreds, hundreds of thousands of xeno biotic agents chemicals that we’ve never. The human condition has never been exposed to these before. It’s I mean, you can’t find anywhere on the planet now where you’re not exposed to these things, so it’s not just pesticides and herbicides, but you know you go inside and everyone’s got air fresheners and outgassing from the carpet in the paint with all that formaldehyde. But like I said, hundreds of thousands of these, we have no idea what the toxicities. But what we do know is that they have the capacity to change epigenetics. So I’m going to describe what that is free for the people who are listening. While our genes generally don’t change except over millennia with so-called natural selection. There are proteins that sit on our genes and they turn the genes on and off and the epigenome. Excuse me, the epigenetics can be changed from one generation to the next, depending on their nutrition, depending on their mental state, depending on on the chemical exposure. And it’s. So each generation gets one more bank of epigenetic changes. Not. We’re not born with a clean slate. But but then and successive generations, it’s like a snowball.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: We’re seeing more and more and more of this. And I just want to mention one other huge change in the human condition, which is the breakdown of extended families and community, the breakdown in safety, real safety. You know, now, as you know, we’ve gone from that to nuclear families more, more and more single parent families. So no parent families, you know, people living on the street. I mean, we didn’t, you know, when I was a kid growing up, we didn’t have homeless. There may have been down on the other side of the railroad tracks, some alcoholic and junkies. I never saw them. Now they’re on every street corner. You know what the hell’s going on here? And I won’t get into a whole political tangent about that one, although we should, maybe. But. But the point is that that affects our nervous systems and that that affects our metabolism, that affects, that is actually passed on to the next generation. PTSD can be inherited. I mean, it’s crazy, right?

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: But but when you add all that up. What we’re seeing is an epidemic of a lot of illnesses. So not only Lyme, I’m putting the pandemic in a whole other category. But but Lyme disease is clearly an epidemic. But we’re also seeing an epidemic in mental health disorders, and we’re seeing an epidemic, an autism epidemic and obesity and adult onset diabetes and cardiovascular disease and autoimmune disorders, you know, so all of these things are getting worse, a lot worse. And I think it’s it’s a derivative of what’s happened over the past century in terms of what we’ve been exposed to, what’s been taken out of our diet, the changes in our social media and so on. I just want to bring home to the people who are listening.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: You know, we’re told and I certainly hope it’s correct that there’s less sexual abuse among children and families now than there was decades ago. And as we all certainly hope, that’s true. But a century ago, if things were not good at home, the kid could go next door to grandma’s or to her aunt and uncle. They could stay there. There were safe people around. That lack of safe people is huge, in my estimation. It is really, really huge and in fact, you know, one of the one of the primary modalities that we used to help treat these people who are have immune systems that are so inflamed and their immune systems are hyper vigilant, so reactive to everything that feels like a threat is there are two systems that are famous. One is by Annie Hopper, that dynamic neuro training system where people can actually shed allergies and reactivity by going through mind body exercises. The other is the Gupta protocol and people this. This has really, really helped. And it’s not that they don’t have organic disorders, it’s that they’re working with a mind body principle where we’re not talking about mind, body communication. We’re talking about mind, body oneness, where, you know, basically whatever that impacts one part of our universe and who we are is going to be impacting our entire universe and and working with our mind and limiting beliefs and so on. We can actually change our reactivity to some degree. Which is not to say you shouldn’t go on and onyx when you need antibiotics.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: I’m saying all of the above all of the above are important. So when we’re treating these people, we give them lots of nutrients that you know about, like Curcumin and Buzz Williams CBD to try to decrease inflammation. We give them antibiotics, but very carefully, because if they have a day off, i.e. Herc Simon reaction or flare when we start killing these, oh my god, you know, just imagine putting people into panic attacks or suicidal depression when they get worse. So we have to be very careful tiptoeing in with any antibiotics. We give them a lot of nutritional support to improve detoxification mold. Oh my god, what a big problem mold is. You know, here we are in Colorado and say, Oh, it’s a dry state. You don’t have mold problems. Oh my god, are you wrong? If you say that I actually this is in a book and I actually quoted it in my book that there are more mold problems in the southwest than in many other parts of the country, which are much more humid, mainly because the building standards are lower. You know, the mold spores are here regardless. It doesn’t matter how dry the climate is, although if it’s really dry, then the mold spores are, you know, it gets windy and they’re floating around even more. All that needs to happen is they get trapped behind a wall where there’s some moisture because there’s a leak in the east and boom, you got mold and you have people trying to buy a new house of people trying to find an apartment. And they’re having trouble because they can’t find the ones that aren’t moldy. And the people who have these infections and these autoimmune disorders and these hyperinflammatory response, they become really sensitive to the mold. Other family members might be just fine, but they’re not. And that doesn’t mean those other family members are possibly having problems in the future because they’re also exposed to mold toxins, too obviously are toxic, but the mold toxins can be really serious and patients with who also has these multiple infections and immune disorders.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: So that’s yet and one whole other issue that we always have to look at and these people with hyper inflammatory responses. So the foods, the mold. Sometimes we have to look at electromagnetic fields. You know, it’s pretty amazing. We had a guy come check our house, I just it’s a gas meter, I think. And he turns off all the electricity in our bedroom and he’s and he’s looking at the gas meter is over. This is pretty good, pretty good, pretty good. And it gets to the head of the bed, which is up against one wall and it goes up. And it turns out on the other side of that wall, there’s a high power line. You know, it’s. And there are things you can do. We actually now don’t use Wi-Fi in the house unless my wife needs it for something we can turn it. We mostly turned off and we just plug in directly in and pull places in the house. You know, the cordless phones are terrible. They’re worse than the smart phones. But most people who have problems with the MMS don’t know what our exposure is. So huge is so hard to get away from MLS at this point. But some people are aware of it. Some people, you know, like, Well, I can’t I can’t put my smartphone near my ear because my brain starts to jingle jangle. You know, they have stories like that. Those are the Canaries because they’re going to be more and more people like that. It’s like we’re multiple chemical sensitivity was. Thirty years ago, and you know, it was it was doctors like myself because I used to have a practice big in environmental medicine were considered quacks, right?

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: Because because you’re diagnosing people with M.S., yes, multiple chemical sensitivity syndrome. And you know, it couldn’t really explain it. We have theories, but it was clearly real. All we had to do is believe our patients, right? Well, now it’s we still don’t really understand it, but I can tell you my neighbor, he’s he’s a I’m not sure exactly what his position is, but it’s an administrative position of a very large allergy clinic. I mean, like 12 different offices around Denver and on the and then on the door of each one, it says, don’t come in if you’re wearing a scent, you know, so it’s now recognized. It’s you know, finally, it’s recognized that it’s real. Well, I think in another generation, EMF sensitivity is going to be recognized. Of course, it’s going to be too late. Our exposures are ridiculous at this point. I got a call, I got a call a month ago that, oh, they’re going to be putting a new meter on my house and I called them up. Exactly. I said, Are you talking about a smart meter this year? And I said, No, no, I will not allow you to put that on the house. So I had to sign an opt out thing to an extra 11 bucks a month. But I’m the guy. They spew such high amounts of EMF, so please tell everyone in your audience, you know, don’t if you have one of these, I’m told there are some sort of covers you can put on them that will decrease the IMF output by 90 percent or something like that. But if you’re offered one, don’t get it. It’s, you know, these are not good for your for your home and family. These are not good.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: So, OK, I’ve been talking a lot and you;ve been so patient nodding your head. What questions do you have?

Dr. Ann-Marie Barter: Oh, I have so many. So great. I mean, I just wanted to let you go because you just kind of covered it. Bam, bam, bam. And I just didn’t really feel like I needed to interject. Going back to. To just first, a PANS case, can you give an example of what a parent might notice if they’re suspicious that their child has pants?

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: OK. Well, the onset can be at any age, but a typical scenario is when they turn to three or four and start a tantrum. These tantrums are over the top. I mean, spectacular. Violent hours, screaming, destroying property often, you know, personality changes, kids going from loving nice people to be around angry and oppositional, having trouble making friends, getting into fights with friends and with siblings, they might. Some of them will actually present with anorexia. They just like lose their appetite. And then there’s anxiety, anxiety, which then can become panic attacks, depression and isolation. These are all symptoms that you know that we we think of all these are mental health symptoms, what’s happening at home, what’s happening in school, what’s happening with friends. But when you put them all together should make you suspicious that you know there might be an organic disorder here that the two primary symptoms I mentioned OCD and anorexia, those are really primary, but you don’t have to have those to still have this autoimmune Assef illness might have to have it, you know, to fulfill the case definition criteria. But that doesn’t matter if you know, but just the anxiety and depression disorders impair cognition. You know, they can’t do schoolwork anymore.

Dr. Ann-Marie Barter: That was my following question how did they do in school?

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: Yeah, they really, you know, the teacher says, Well, Johnny’s just spacing out. You know, he’s he’s not focused, he’s not here. Which is also interesting because adults will often describe trying to think of the language that they use. But it’s it’s a sense of not being present like, I’m just not here. It’s a I wish I could remember their language and it doesn’t come to me, but the kids space out and. So, you know, and they might have physical complaints like they have bellyache sort of headaches, develop sleep problems and so on ticks, for sure. You know, it could be facial grimacing or so on.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: There’s another one, another physical symptom Korea that c h o r e a that’s a medical term for involuntary movements. So suddenly, you know they’re doing this with their arms or legs. And you know, it’s just. Out of the blue for no good reason. That’s that’s famous in Huntington’s Korea. But but this is just part of that autoimmune encephalopathy. Yeah. If you put it all together, it’s like, Oh yeah, it’s really obvious. Sadly, you know, most pediatricians are not tuned into this, at least not here in Colorado. But if there is any suspicion, you know, parents should go on a website and read up on it. And and there are, you know, besides myself, there are some doctors here and in Colorado, a few of us who are who are going to diagnose and treat us.

Dr. Ann-Marie Barter: So many people struggle with bloating, bowel issues, brain fog, fatigue. You might not even have any gut issues, but did you know the cause of it could be food sensitivities or gut infections? What I have done is I have brought a talented functional nutritionist into my practice. We have very similar training in the nutritional world. And her name is Alexis Appleberry. She is awesome. So you can head on over to our website, altFamMed and have a consultation with her and schedule so that she can help you get to the root cause of your problems.

Dr. Ann-Marie Barter: Have you seen there’s been a big movement with the highly sensitive child in sensory disorders, do you feel like there’s any link to a line associated with that?

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: I do I can tell you in my pediatric population with lawn. As well as my adult population, but with the pediatric, it’s somehow more on the surface that they do have sensory integration disorders. Commonly, they will often object to smells as well as touch as well as light as well as sound. You know, actually, I was just talking to a parent this week and her 10 year old still walks around with headphones. And it just filters out all the ambient sound that you can just listen at whatever volume he wants. So yes. Now that’s not to say everybody who has sensory integration disorder has mine, but. I think it’s important to start asking questions, so, you know, if you’re going to, it’s important not to pigeonhole. So if a child is labeled with sensory integration disorder, we have to ask more questions. What else is going on?

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: You know, this comes back to something we were talking about in terms of doctors having their own boundaries. And you know that like, well, here, the kidney doctor only deals with kidneys. In my book, I. I tell a story at the very end of the book, my wife was admitted to the hospital on an emergency basis. She had severe chest pain and paralysis of her leg, and this was an acute episode and we knew she was having something in her heart. We knew that she was having something neurologically well, her heart stabilized and the doctor and a cardiologist came and explained, here’s what happened, and she should be fine said so. How does that explain what happened in a nervous system because she’s still paralyzed? He said, No, I don’t do that. I don’t deal with the nervous system. I asked the neurologist the same question. I don’t deal with the heart. It was staggering to me. You know, not, you know, curiosity, these two events happened simultaneously. Don’t you want to understand what’s happening in the big picture, what’s explaining the whole thing and not just what’s happening in your little corner of the world? I mean, but this is the way Western medicine works. And it’s it’s really it’s really not to our well-being. If you if you have a multi systemic illness, which most are, if they’re chronic, they’re always mostly systemic. And, you know, and the doctors that they don’t even talk to each other, let alone try to understand what’s going on in the big overall picture. You know, that’s it’s a sad commentary.

Dr. Ann-Marie Barter: It is you. You also talk about neuroinflammation associated with pants, but we also get neuroinflammation with line and correct me if I’m if I misspeak in there. So what do we see with neurotransmitters? You discuss dopamine a little bit. What do we see with some of the other neurotransmitters?

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: Yeah, it’s a good question. It’s not. It’s not well understood. We believe that that the neuroinflammation which occurs with the infections, regardless of whether there’s evidence of hands. Well, you know, I’m going to take a step back. I think if we started running Cunningham channels online, patients, chronic Lyme patients who have neuropsychiatric symptoms, we would find a whole lot of people with positive anti neuronal antibodies and and some of that’s been done. So I…I think that it’s important for people to understand that Lyme in these other tick borne infections, they don’t cause problems the way we normally think of infection.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: We normally think of a strep infection or wound infection as. Bacteria invading tissue, disrupting the tissue function, and then there’s a local inflammatory response that takes care of the infection and repairs the tissue. Well, excuse me, but that’s not what happens with these infections in their chronic state. Instead of attacking hardware ourselves, they attack software, they attack our regulatory systems and disrupt normal regulation so they disrupt our immune function, resulting in suppressed immunity as well as excess inflammation and autoimmunity.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: They they they disrupt endocrine function. And now we have abnormal hormone levels and they disrupt nervous system function and the nervous system. We see the neuroinflammation, as you mentioned. And and it does it it we know that it affects some neurotransmitter synthesis and transmission. And I don’t know more specifics about that other than the dopamine issue and specifically associated with PANS.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: We know it affects the circulation in the brain. We can do SPECT scans on these patients and SPECT scans, look at blood flow in the brain, and we see patches of brain that aren’t getting good blood supply or sometimes global hypo perfusion. No wonder they have brain fog. No wonder they can’t find their way back home when they go to the grocery store and it can be that bad, which I just want to point out the people who have long COVID syndrome.

Dr. Ann-Marie Barter: That’s where it’s going next. You know.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: So you know, those of us who have been treating chronic Lyme disease like, Oh yeah, we know this. This is what we see day in, day out in our patients is the same as long COVID. And I actually wrote an article about I just haven’t figured out where to get it published yet, but. But you know, what we’re talking about is disregulation, we’re talking inflammation. The autonomic nervous system in particular, where you see fluctuations and pulse and blood pressure, which can result in lots of racing heart and dropping blood pressure and passing out just plain lightheadedness. But deciding on you also can cause shortness of breath and anxiety and a multitude of other symptoms. Something else that we see in line and in long COVID, we see excessive mass cell activation. So Marcel’s are white cells, white blood cells that are actually primitive, the very early white blood cells, they contain almost 200 inflammatory mediators.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: And when they get triggered and discharge those mediators, you get inflammation. Sometimes it’s very obvious in terms of an allergic response, including anything from hay fever to hives to anaphylaxis. But it can just cause migraines and joint pains and belly aches and diarrhea, as well as brain fog. And anything associated with inflammation, can be engendered by Marcel de Granulation. And what happens with muscle activation syndrome is the threshold for this de granulation goes down in that. So to trigger happy and instead of being relatively stable, they’re discharging their contents.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: And you get a lot of histamine reactions and and it’s really terrible. So one of the things that we do with all of these patients is we try to stabilize mast cells and give them antihistamines and so on. And I meant to mention that previously, but that’s happening in the long COVID patients as well. They also have food sensitivities. This is all in the literature. They also have dysregulation of hormones, particularly adrenal and thyroid. I wouldn’t be surprised if the worst ones tend to have mold problems. You know, that says it just adds on to an already inflamed body that what else? I should try and remember what I wrote in this article. You know, the symptoms are so similar, you know, severe fatigue, severe breathing problems, which can happen both with those with tick borne infections, seems to happen maybe even more with the long COVID. And the mechanisms may be multiple, but different kinds of breathing exercises, probably the autonomic nervous system. There’s a whole big thing with the vagus nerve. You know, the vagus nerve is the central nerve, and it has a lot to do with with balancing immune responses. And the vagus nerve, you know, directly stimulates the heart to gut the lungs. It it there’s different branches of the vagal nerve. So we think of it as this one sort of monolithic entity and what it does. But depending on which branch, you can do a lot of different things and there’s certain branches or are stimulated. It can really make us feel like we want to die. I mean, it’s, you know, versus other branches which sort of brighten our legs. So.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: At any rate, you know, these are all things that can be balanced with attention. There’s books on college legal exercises. The vagus nerve gets stimulated by Marcel de granulation and in turn the vagus nerve comes back and stimulates the matzos to the grand jury. I mean, we have these kind of self-perpetuating cycles going on in both long COVID and in chronic Lyme.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: Another thing is that we don’t know if people with long COVID, we don’t really know if the virus has been cleared. There is evidence, and many of them that the immune system has been suppressed and they continue to have virus in their system. And even if they don’t have the virus in their system, they often still have the spike protein in their system. In the spike protein can cause inflammation. Excuse me. So. So, yeah, these patients really look alike. The article I wrote is titled What what chronic Lyme can teach us about long Kogut.

Dr. Ann-Marie Barter: And do you think that some of the the long hauler COVID patients and this is probably an opinion because you don’t really know if they would have Lyme disease. You know, this is really interesting.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: You know, I see people who I know already have Lyme disease, right? But right now I have a colleague in New Jersey who has seen a lot of those long COVID patients and people with post-COVID vaccine issues. And she said that the most common thing she sees is a trigger of their Bartonella in particular, as well as other infections. And this is often in people who didn’t know they had these underlying infections. So I think it’s I think it’s likely that we know we know that viruses can trigger line from a dormant to inactive infection. We know that the virus that we’ve seen as particularly with Epstein-Barr, we’ve seen where it will make it much worse. We’ve we’ve seen the reverse, we’ve seen where a line like Epstein-Barr virus as well. So I think, yeah,

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: I do think you’re correct. I think that that any virus, but particularly something as virulent SARS-CoV-2, has the potential to uncover underlying infections that may have been dormant and Lyme and its co-infections. It can be dormant for some people whose immune systems really keep it in check. And then it’s not until something happens like SARS-CoV-2 or some other viral infection or interestingly, head trauma or stress or mold exposure, you know, or, you know, sadly, vaccines, you know, these things can trigger a dormant infection to become active.

Dr. Ann-Marie Barter: That’s that’s good information I can I can talk to you all day. That one final question. You mentioned sugar and you mentioned carbohydrates as a big contributor to some of the mental health disorders that are going on. Why? I mean, sugar is inflammatory, but is there more to that story? Does it feed? It feeds life, et cetera. So let’s talk a little bit about that.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: That’s a good question. So there’s a few things going on, but I want to share something with your audience. In the 1950s, there is a Professor Eugene in Great Britain who was writing papers connecting sugar with cardiovascular disease, which then, as now is the most common cause of death in the western world. OK, well, the Harvard School of Public Health, they went public, those research studies, but they are flawed.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: And the problem is fat. The problem is, you know, fat loss is going to raise your cholesterol level and you got to go on low fat diets. So this is this is before you were born. Right? So, you know, starting in the 50s and then into the 60s, Harvard School of Public Health was the major proponent of this. It turns out the Harvard School of Public Health was getting a lot of money from the food industry. I mean, a whole lot of money and they were getting blown off. Now this isn’t a conspiracy theory. What I’m describing to you has been printed in medical journals. OK. And they’re getting all this money to say the the problem isn’t sugar. So what happens is the food industry. They’re happy to take the fat out because, you know, that’s going to make for a shorter shelf life anyway, whatever. So but what happens is you take out the fat and and it doesn’t have much taste. So what do they do? They put in a lot more sugar. And and they’re telling people, Well, you shouldn’t eat so much meat because it has saturated fat. What’s happened to the American diet after that is that people went on much higher carb and higher sugar diets. And it’s since then that we have seen a astronomical rise in obesity and diabetes. I mean, astronomical. When I was in training, which was the 70s doctor, said

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: Diabetes, we never saw it in anyone less than 40 years old. Never. And those people had to be really obese. Now they’re actually diagnosing it in children. So here’s what’s happening. Here’s what’s happening. Adult onset diabetics don’t lack for insulin, the situation is there’s something called insulin resistance, and what happens when you have sugar and carbs is your blood sugar goes up. And that in turn stimulates the pancreas to start releasing insulin. The insulin is a messenger molecule.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: It’s a hormone, and it attaches to receptors on the cells and it gives a message. The messages open your door, take the sugar out of the bloodstream into the cell where it can be metabolized, and then the blood sugar comes down. What happens in people with insulin resistance is the insulin comes knocking at the door, no one answers, so then the pancreas puts out even more insulin and more insulin until the door finally opens.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: So someone can have totally normal blood sugars, but for a long time, their insulin levels keep on going up and up and up. So this comes more directly to answering your question when insulin levels go up. That’s bad. Insulin levels going up increases your risk of heart disease. It increases inflammation. It causes people to be fatigued and sleepy people who have a high carb meal like Thanksgiving and then get sleepy. It’s not the turkey and the tryptophan, it’s the carbs and probably some beer and wine. And at any rate, you know, which is also carbs and. And so insulin is a bad actor, contributes to a lot of inflammation, but here’s another thing it does.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: It messages the cells to take that sugar and make it into fat, and that if you need to break down something for energy, don’t take it from the fat. Take from your glycogen stores in the liver. So, so basically, it then continues to add weight to you.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: And, you know, really the percentage of at least a third of the American population as is obese, but by strict standards. So I think it’s more than 20 percent overweight. I think it’s over. It’s over a third. So, you know, and then the incidence of adult onset diabetes, but these people also have all these inflammatory disorders and other complaints related to that. So here’s the other issue that. I talked about how people develop food sensitivities because their bodies are inflamed states and now they’re becoming more reactive. The more common food sensitivities are sugar, yeast grains, and then you can throw in eggs and dairy. Those would be the most common.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: And so there you go. That’s what you’re going to get, particularly in the high carb diet. Right? So and if people want to lose weight now, you know, there’s tons of books out there and they start, I’ll say the same thing. You know, basically, you go on a low glycemic diet. By definition, low glycemic means means that it has a low stimulate stimulatory action on insulin release. That’s the definition of low glycemic. So, so, so sugar has by itself suppresses the immune system. But it also will result in these insulin responses, which increase inflammation and just make symptoms worse and harder to control.

Dr. Ann-Marie Barter: Well. Thank you so much for being here and and sharing your knowledge, I mean, always, you just have a plethora of knowledge, you’re always learning more every time I talk to you. So it’s pretty amazing. It was amazing to to hear you speak today. So thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Daniel Kinderlehrer: Thanks for having me. I really enjoyed it. Awesome.

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