Every year, we learn more and more about how incredibly important the bacteria in your body can be for your overall health! But what do you need to know in order to protect your microbiome, boost your good bacteria, and promote your own gut health?

Today we are talking about your gut, how it is like our second brain, diving into new strategies that have been recently discovered in gut health, how your bacteria, both good and bad, communicate, how you can fix your gut health, and more with Dr. Dan Gubler!

 

We answer these questions:

– What do we know about good bacteria and bad bacteria in our gut?

– How do bacteria communicate and how can it affect us?

– What probiotics can do to your microbiome?

– What are biofilms?

– What is quercetin, and can it be taken as a supplement?

– What you can do to beat brain fog!

– And more!

 

Still want to learn more? Schedule with Dr. Barter today!

 

Supplements:

Binding Fiber Support Capsules: https://drannmariebarter.com/product/binding-fiber-support-capsules/ 

 

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About Dr. Dan Gubler:

Dr. Dan is a Caltech-trained natural product chemist that has traveled to every continent discovering and researching bioactive compounds in plants and using them to help others. 

Over the last 18 years, Dr. Dan has made numerous leaps in scientific discovery. His work has been recognized with the DSA Visionary Award, the Schering-Plough Science and Innovation Award, the American Cancer Society Fellowship, the Eli Lilly Fellowship, and the Best Educator Award from Brigham Young University–Hawaii. He has also been inducted into the London Speaker Bureau. His desired superpower? Dr. Dan wants “plant vision” to see every molecule in a plant. In the meantime, he’s not going to let finding molecules the old-fashioned way slow him down.

Dr. Dan is currently the Chief Scientific Officer at Brilliant Science and has years of experience in the health sciences community.

You can find him at: https://feelbrilliant.com/ 

 

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Subscribe for more gut health content and share this podcast with a friend! Take a screenshot of this episode and tag Dr. Ann-Marie Barter:

http://instagram.com/drannmariebarter

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Dr. Ann-Marie Barter is a Functional Medicine and Chiropractic Doctor at Alternative Family Medicine & Chiropractic. She is the clinic founder of Alternative Family Medicine & Chiropractic that has two offices: one in Longmont and one in Denver. They treat an array of health conditions overlooked or under-treated by conventional medicine, called the “grey zone”. https://altfammed.com/

https://drannmariebarter.com/

 

Transcription:

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:00:00] For every one human cell in the body, we have over 10 bacterial cells that were a living ecosystem that just floored me, the paradigm shift. You know that before everything was antibacterial, right, we wanted to kill bacteria and knock them dead. Any sort of bacteria was bad, you know, it’s like the Wild West. We’re out to kill them. But now we realize the bacteria are beautiful and that it’s a symphony in the body between us and good species of bacteria that the fuel all aspects of human health.

Intro [00:00:30] Are you struggling with bloating, gas, constipation and fatigue, but don’t know what’s causing these problems? The Gut Health Reset Podcast with Dr. Ann-Marie Barter dives deep into the root causes behind these issues that start in the gut. This podcast will give you the knowledge you need to heal your gut and reset your health.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:00:52] Thank you so much for being with us here today on the Gut Health Reset Podcast. Today we are talking about the gut, (surprise, surprise) and how it is this second brain, but we’re also diving into new strategies that have been recently discovered in gut health. How your bacteria, both good and bad, communicate how you can fix your gut health inside of your spice cabinet. What you didn’t know about how plants are actually affecting your gut health and a secret weapon quercetin and what that does to your gut health. Today, my special guest is Dr. Dan Gubler. He has a podcast called Proactive Health Podcast and Discover with Dr. Dan.. Dr. Dan is currently the chief scientific officer at Brilliant Science and has years of experience in the health services community. Dr. Dan received his B.S. in biochemistry and a Ph.D. in Natural Products Chemistry. He is an American Cancer Society Fellow at Caltech and a professor of Natural Products Chemistry. Dr Dan, it is such a pleasure to have you here today on the Gut Health Reset Podcast, I’m excited because we’re talking about new strategies in gut health and I’m really excited to dove into what you know. But what got you interested in gut health?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:02:25] So just the stats when the science came along, you know what we’re understanding now that for every. And the numbers change, but for every one humans on the body, we have over 10 bacterial cells that were a living ecosystem that just floored me. The paradigm shift. You know that before everything was anti-bacterial, right? We wanted to kill bacteria and knock them dead. Any sort of bacteria was bad, you know, it’s like the Wild West were out to kill them. But now we realize the bacteria are beautiful and that it’s a symphony in the body between us and good species of bacteria that the fuel all aspects of human health.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:03:04] And why do you think we had this antibacterial revolution for so long? Because we’re just starting to come out of that? I mean, would you agree?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:03:14] Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think technology’s the ability to do DNA sequencing, you know, now we can take a fecal sample or, you know, a sample from the from the gut, and we can detect hundreds and thousands of different species of bacteria. And the technology to do that is called PCR. And so that technology really started to come online late 90s or early 2000s. And so I think that kind of fueled the explosion that that there’s more than just bad bacteria in the gut.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:03:44] Mm hmm. And what did what do you think this technology actually taught us and taught us about the gut microbiome?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:03:53] I think it’s kind of like landing, you know, the Mars rover landing on Mars and taking soil samples. That’s kind of what we’re able to do now. You know, before, like Mars, it was always just this this red planet. Who knew what was there? And the guy was kind of the same way, you know, we actually it’s funny. We actually know more about the surface of Mars right now than we do about the gut. There’s still just so much we don’t know, and everybody wants to talk about what we do know and what we do know is marvelous. And a lot of times we want to paint a complete picture, even though, you know, we want to fill in the 2000 piece puzzle even when we have 600 pieces in place and say it looks like this and we don’t know for sure, but it’s marvelous. It’s it’s it’s the unknown. You know, we we look for faraway stars and want to analyze their gas composition. But the treasure trove, one of the huge treasure trove still to be teased out completely is our gut.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:04:47] Mm hmm. And I think you you bring up a really you bring a really interesting perspective to the table because you’ve really studied how the bacteria communicate in the gut. Why is that important that we learn about this?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:05:08] Yeah. So if you’re going to improve human health, obviously we need to know communication. The key to any good really relationship is communication. And that applies to health as well. We need to know how the body communicates with each other, and we understand that a little bit. We know how cells communicate with each other. But learning how bacteria. So the discovery called quorum sensing quorum sensing, is the process by which bacteria talk to each other and the way it works is bacteria. They secrete small molecules, organic compounds called Otto inducers, and these autoinducer, they float through the space, the aqueous space in between bacteria cells. They’re picked up. But what happens is when the concentration of autoinducer gets large enough, it actually turns on genes, chemical switches in bacteria that allow them to communicate with each other. To talk to each other, they gain new features. Features like the ability to become virulent, to form biofilms to become motile. It’s like leveling up in a game. You know where a whole new world opens up. That’s that’s a quorum sensing is

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:06:14] but still an example of what what you’re seeing with the quorum sensing and what it’s activating genetically. Do you have a case or perspective on that?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:06:24] Yeah. So, you know, cluster m. Difficile, C. diff, obviously a big deal, really hard to get rid of one or two bacteria of molecules, organisms of C. diff in the intestines. It’s not enough to cause problem. What happens is when C. diff starts talking to each other, it secretes these organic compounds, these oxides aliens. And when the oxidizing concentration gets large enough, that’s what allows C. diff to hide out, to become invasive, to become motile and to basically escape the immune system of the body and cause problems. Mm hmm. The C. diff is an example of quorum sensing.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:07:05] Do you also see the quorum sensing the other way that the good bacteria communicate?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:07:11] Absolutely, yeah. And one of the great things for us as scientists is that good and bad bacteria actually use different languages, different dialects, so to speak of corm sensing. So that’s nice. And and so quorum sensing is the way the bacteria grow because as we know in the human gut, the microbiome, we have good and bad bacteria and they’re fighting for surface area. It’s a land war. You know, if good bacteria concentrations are increasing, bad must be going down and vice versa. And the way that they’re able to grow and actually grow explosively is via this quorum sensing mechanism when we have these Otto inducers that are picked up. It’s kind of like, you know, the when people start to gossip or whatnot, you know, Oh, I heard that, you know, he actually did this or no, no, actually, I heard it was this. And then it kind of gets this steady steam and then it just goes crazy. Exponential rate. The Gossip Train is off the chains, and it produces something that’s just wild, and that’s that’s how quorum sensing is. It starts small, it starts slow. But then when it gets excited, it can. It can be a runaway freight train style, which is bad for human health. But it can also be good if it’s using the good bacteria. Dialect and good bacteria just completely wipe out the bad and restore homeostasis to the gut.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:08:27] Mm hmm. And I think what what I’m assuming people are thinking is that, well, I need more good bacteria to wipe out the bad bacteria, right? So doesn’t that just mean that I need to take a probiotic or have some more? Fiber in my diet.

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:08:46] Right, and that’s the assumption. But the but the assumption there, the caveat is assuming that bad bacteria will just yield right. You know, that’s assuming that if you have a cup that’s full and you pour water in, we’re assuming, you know, the about good and bad bacteria in this cup. We’re assuming that when you pour water in that water, representing bad bacteria is only going to fall out of the cup, you know, to overflow. It’s not that simple, right? If we’re pouring good bacteria on top of a cup, that’s already full. Yes, some getting in, but it’s not going to make as big of a difference as we would hope. So you really need to clear some space. You really need to get some surface area on your side. And in order to do that, ideally would be to remove bad bacteria to reduce that concentration such that the good can grow organically, naturally into their accelerated. And that’s what probiotics can do. But we need to give us some room.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:09:46] Yeah, I got so many questions, so we’ve got you mentioned biofilms, and I think it’s important to define what biofilms are associated with gut bacteria, would you mind doing that real quick?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:10:00] Yeah, for sure. So biofilms is basically there and there’s tons of different biofilms, but and mechanisms and examples. But classically speaking, a biofilm is a mixture of at least two different bacteria that are living mutually with each other. And in order to, you know, back being a bacteria is hard. You know, it’s you against the world. You know, it’s it’s it’s tough and systems in the body, other bacteria are always out to get you. And so if you’re able to hook up with someone and lock resources, then you’re able to form a protective film around yourself. And so that’s what that’s what biofilms do. There’s bacteria, at least two different species, more a lot of times that that synergistically start collaborating with each other and start building these really strong fortresses. These these it’s like a cell wall, but it’s a lot stronger than that. Its cell wall upon cell wall that forms this really, really strong, cellulosic like linkage that is just rock hard. It’s impenetrable. And they use that to hide out. And, you know, as hard as the body tries to get in there and to pull them apart, you know, it’s kind of like the underground, the mafia or gangs that get so deeply rooted inside society that it’s hard, it’s hard to tease it all out and pull it all out.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:11:25] So we have this cup that’s overflowing. We have biofilms. We have good bacteria versus bad bacteria. Everybody’s communicating right. So how do we clear space?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:11:39] So that is where Mother Nature comes in, and mother nature plants have actually been fighting off bacteria for millions and millions of years. Bad bacteria bacteria are good for plants. They actually work together symbiotically, just like the body. But there are bacteria that that literally kill the plants, you know, dirtier than a doornail, so they want to protect themselves. And so plants have evolved over millions of years. Small molecules, they they’ve developed small molecules, organic compounds like polyphenols and others that can actually inhibit quorum sensing of certain species of bad bacteria. So, you know, in our example for gossiping, if we’re talking, you know, these these small molecules that the the plants produce then inhibit quorum sensing. It basically inhibits our ability to communicate, you know, if we’re trying to text back and forth, oh, you know, it’s also about, you know, it shuts down the cell phone connection, right? Shuts down the landline, it destroys the letter, you know, if we’re sending a like, you know, back in the day Pony Express sending a message, a message across the plains, the messenger is killed, so the letter never arrives. And and when you do that, communication Gossiping’s stops, and that’s what small molecules and plants can do.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:13:04] And so what exactly are polyphenols?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:13:08] So polyphenols are a class of organic compounds. There’s thousands of different polyphenols. They’re found in different, different plants. They’re found in fruits, berries, nuts. One of the classic ones that has good quorum sensing activity is quercetin. Quercetin is found in the skin of apples. It’s enriched in the skin of apples. It’s found in berries. It’s found in nuts. It’s found in clothes, believe it or not. And a lot of other places. And quercetin is really, really good. Questions also found in Chestnut. That’s actually one of the best places it’s found. And quercetin is good at destroying these chemical messengers used by bad bacteria, the general dialect used by most species of bad bacteria or worse, since very good at neutralizing that conversation. So the message doesn’t get sent to the other side.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:14:03] Do you find any difference in taking quercetin a supplement versus eating it in foods?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:14:12] More research needs to be done on that, but some of the research that we’ve done supplementation we we’ve been doing a lot of research and studies with quercetin. We’ve been using it in a novel immune health formulation, and we find that it functions just fine in supplement form. And it’s possible that in food you have obviously a wider array of polyphenols that could be essential, accentuating the warm sensing effect and amplifying it in a good way. But we don’t know that for sure, but we do know that quercetin either supplement form or in foods is. A really good quorum quencher.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:14:50] So I have this bacterial overgrowth that I can’t seem to get rid of, I’m trying probiotics are making me worse. I fiber doesn’t work. So what type of diet could I do to kind of clear the way initially?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:15:08] Yeah. So when it when it comes to diet, these quorum sensing inhibitors, a lot of them are actually found in spices. They’re found in places like cardamom, capers, cinnamon, clove, coriander, rosemary, nutmeg. So it’s and and I wonder why that is. I don’t know exactly why, but it seems like these spices have high amounts of these quorum sensing inhibiting ingredients. So cooking real food, cooking with spices, liberal amounts of spices, you know, I think a lot of times when we think spices, you know, just a little dash here or there. But you know, if you’re making potatoes, you know, roasting potatoes with tons of rosemary is a great thing. It’s delicious, right? And eating the rosemary, you know, using cinnamon in larger amounts, higher quality cinnamon and and mixing things up when it comes to your spices is a is a good way. You know, when I travel around the world studying compounds and plants and talking with traditional medicine healers, it’s really interesting. In a lot of traditional medicine concoctions, you have the active plant, you know that they’re drinking, but then almost always there will be cinnamon or there’ll be nutmeg, you know, masala chai type stuff in there. And a lot of times they ask, Well, you know why? Why do you put that in there? And they say, Well, because it tastes good and and it might be that, but it might also be because of this quorum sensing benefit that through thousands and thousands of years of them trying and testing it, finding that putting some of these spices in which they think is more just for acceptability and taste. So people will take it as actually having a dual benefit of this corn sensing inhibiting effect. So eating and using spices liberally is a really good thing.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:17:01] So if I’m eating and using these spices and I have a lot of overgrowth of bad bacteria and it’s really hard to tell, when would you when do people see a difference with incorporating a lot more spices into their diet?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:17:18] So scientifically, when we look at, you know, quercetin is a quorum sensing inhibitor, it works. It works quickly. It actually works over the course of 72 to 96 hours. Bad bacteria concentrations are reduced 50 or 60 percent. And so if we look at that turnover time in the body and obviously it’s can vary on a bunch of different factors, but it’s something that you should start to see relatively soon two three four five six days. Not like a, you know, six months, you know, keep at it and keep trying. And hopefully something happens sort of saying it. It can be quick because bacteria divide constantly. The reproduction time of bacteria, depending on what species it is, is anywhere from a doubling time is one to eight hours. So these double quickly. And so if we’re inhibiting their ability to grow, then that’s something you’ll see pretty, pretty rapidly.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:18:12] So many people struggle with bloating, bowel issues, brain fog, fatigue. You might not even have any gut issues, but did you know the cause of it could be food sensitivities or gut infections? What I have done is I have brought a talented functional nutritionist into my practice. We have very similar training in the nutritional world. And her name is Alexis Appleby. She is awesome. So you can head on over to our website. &Lt. Alti Fam Fam Med Med and have a consultation with her and schedule so that she can help you get to the root cause of your problems. And so we’re looking at this and we’re talking about the bacteria and really digging into that in the gut. And it’s clearly important for gastrointestinal function, right? It’s important for bloating. It’s important for weight loss. It’s important for anxiety, depression, et cetera. So we start to get into some of those mental emotional symptoms. But one thing that we’ve talked about is that the gut is the second brain, right? So. That’s right. So what does this? How do we see brain fog affected in this entire picture?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:19:32] Yeah. So one of the fascinating things that we’re finding is that bad bacteria, good and bad bacteria, there are producers of bioactive compounds. So they pump out these bioactive compounds that cause and effect in the body. And what we’re finding is that certain species of bacteria species like Akkermansia municipally produces neurotransmitters precursors to neurotransmitters. They produce signaling molecules that sends signals to the brain that reduce that, reduce the inflammatory response in the brain that allow cognitive function to to improve. They they produce serotonin and dopamine like small molecules that again are neurotransmitters. And so when we are supporting growth of good bacteria, we’re actually supporting neurotransmitter growth. And so serotonin and dopamine are naturally produced in the body. And I don’t know. The exact numbers are studies that are coming out, and it’d be interesting once and for all. But their studies have been trying to decipher how much you know, what concentration or what amount of neurotransmitters is produced by the body versus the percentage of neurotransmitters. It’s produced by good bacteria in the body. And the most recent papers I read, the one I read a while ago, and so I’m not sure if it’s quite accurate. But they were saying that around 60 percent of all the neurotransmitters in signaling molecules in the brain for cognitive function are from good bacteria in the gut, rather than the body producing it itself.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:21:08] Interesting. Yeah, I had seen some conflicting studies on that as well as like, OK, so that’s yeah. Yeah, that you brought that up.

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:21:16] Regardless, what we do know is that good bacteria in the gut are vital for cognitive function. It’s called the second brain for good reason, and neurotransmitter growth and development and functioning is a big component of good bacteria in the gut.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:21:31] So I see Akkermansia as I’m getting, you know, pop ups that are like, Oh, Akkermansia, we’re on the cutting edge of being able to put this into a pill, et cetera. Yeah, I’m sure you know exactly what I’m talking about. So what what foods do you know of that we can use to boost up Ackerman’s? Yeah, because I think a lot of people are deficient in Akkermansia itself.

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:21:57] Yeah. So Akkermansia that’s that’s again, something that’s a bit debatable. A lot of people are trying to figure out and tease, you know, where, where it’s actually coming from. We know there is some research showing that in the lactis type foods, you know, like sauerkraut and stuff like that, there can be some Akkermansia there. Excuse me. Honestly, I think more research needs to be done to really nail down exactly where it’s coming from. We do know that it’s important that it’s enriched. We do know that it’s tied to Lactobacillus Ruiter II. So Lactobacillus ruiter I like in cerrado bread and fermentation, sauerkraut and those sorts of things Akkermansia comes along with with Ruiter I. But exactly how it does that I at least in the literature I’ve seen, I haven’t haven’t seen that teased out 100 percent

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:22:48] yet, but we know that it’s very important, obviously, for overall cognitive function right in weight loss.

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:22:55] It’s huge. Yeah, when it comes to bacteria where there’s actually good studies on its its beneficial effects, Akkermansia I would rate is number one right now when I’m the science, really cool science,

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:23:09] it’s really, really getting well-studied, which is really exciting how much we talk about the Lactobacillus species. We talk about the benefit of species. We talk about Saccharomyces boulardii, Akkermansia. How much do you think we don’t know about the gut microbiota?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:23:28] I really do believe it’s like the surface of Mars. I think that we’re just barely scratching the surface and being able to catalog and calculate some of these things and know that they’re there. That’s one thing. But being able to track down because good bacteria are bioactive factories, they produce hundreds of different bioactive compounds. And these bioactive compounds can do everything from from helping with with membrane permeability, with leaky gut. They can help with neurotransmitter production and they can help with the inflammation process. So you have inflammation, obviously, and then you have the resolution of inflammation, where a class of compounds called specialized problem-solving mediators helps to resolve inflammation and small molecules from bacteria have been implicated in that mechanism. So it’s it’s hard to trace exactly. It’s complex because there’s just so many leads to chase. You know, it’s it’s like a bomb goes off and you just have to kind of find all the different pieces and try to put it together. And when you when we look at the different species of bacteria, the permutations. So just because we say, you know, Lactobacillus Ruiter II or Bifidobacterium long term, there’s many different subspecies of long term and Ruggieri, it’s not as simple as just, you know, one one phrase means everything. There’s different morphologies. And so it’s it’s a complex web. That that that we’re trying to unravel. But, you know, the tools that have really allowed us to do it have only come online in the last 10 years or so in their fullness. And you know, we’re still developing the technology to really decipher from July through high throughput screening and look at the metabolomics of these ecosystems.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:25:21] So if somebody says, you know, Hey, Dr. Dan, I’ve definitely got brain fog, I’m forgetting things. I do have some gut problems. What would your advice to them be to kind of the next steps of what they should do? Because I think people get really stuck and they’re not really sure what the next step should be?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:25:47] Yeah, that’s that’s a great question. And I I would obviously turning to Whole Foods is is a good thing. Rosemary is a really, really good ingredient. Clove is really good at helping to kind of break down some of this bad bacteria chatter. So if you can use those, those are good. And Andrew Gravis is an immune health ingredient and a gravis has compounds called Andrew Graff Elides and Andrew Graff lives have a really interesting quorum sensing properties as well. There’s supplementation is a good thing in most cases now. Supplementation can get a bad rap, but because there’s a lot of bad players and there’s a lot of crazy stuff going on, but the nice thing about supplementation is I can get pure quercetin, I can get pure beguelin, I can get rosemary rosmarin an acid. And those we know unequivocally do disrupt quorum sensing and species of bad bacteria. The bad players in the body, like Pseudomonas aeruginosa, a bacterium, bile HCM, staph aureus and others. And so being able to supplement with some of these key things can really help to make sure that we’re moving the needle. One of the problems with foods that we’re still trying to figure out good food is medicine. We all know that and we believe that with all our hearts, it’s just hard to know how much medicinal components are in the food. You know, when it comes to how it’s been, how it’s been bred, how it was collected, how long it sat there, was it grown in a house? You know, when was it last harvested insecticides? There’s a lot of different things. And so there’s something to be said for, OK, I do have, you know, 100 milligrams of quercetin and I know it’s pure and I’m going to take that.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:27:52] Have you seen the food sources like you? You mentioned insecticides and pesticides. Have you seen that really disrupt the the microbiome?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:28:05] For sure. Yeah, there has been a lot of disruption glycol phosphates. More research needs to be done, but glycol phosphates are antibacterial. I mean, when we talk about pesticides, most, most problems with with crops and crops being destroyed, a lot of it is insects and whatnot. But even more so it’s it’s bacteria, it’s western blight. It’s different types of fungi and and those are bacterial and fungal in nature. And so insecticides are meant a lot of them. They work to kill bad bacteria, and a lot of them inhibit quorum sensing in a not so good way for good for good bacteria. And so that’s something that that we need to be careful of. It’s still it’s still a mixed bag. There’s a lot more to be teased out, but insecticides, glycol, phosphates and whatnot they do. They do disrupt the good bacterial growth and quorum sensing to a degree to what degree? We don’t know for sure, but we do know that that it is to a degree, and it’s and it’s not a great thing.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:29:09] What have you seen also with with things like alcohol? How does that disrupt quorum sensing?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:29:17] Yeah. So alcohol is an indiscriminate killer of bacteria, good or bad, you know, it makes no makes no judgment calls. It’s just a cold blooded killer. It goes in. Yeah, it just goes into the cell membrane, disrupts cell membrane integrity, disrupts osmotic pressure and causes the cell to to lice and rupture. And so it’s indiscriminate. And one of the really cool things and good technologies and potentials about bioactive compounds from plants to inhibit quorum sensing is we can have some selectivity there. You know, so hand sanitizers, you know, is great as they are, they probably have their place, whatever, but. Every time we use sanitizer, we think about it. We’re killing indiscriminately the good bacteria on our skin. Now if we had more time, we’d talk about the skin microbiome. So we talk about the gut microbiome, and that’s amazing about the skin microbiome, my goodness. When it comes to skin health, not just skincare, but actually communication pheromones, volatile compounds coming off the skin that regulate the way that we interact with each other, both both from an intimacy standpoint, but also just general interactions with people. This is because of molecules from the skin microbiome. So when I’m taking ethanol, I’m just rubbing it indiscriminately on my skin. I’m killing all those species of bacteria. So if there is a way to just kind of be more selective, that’s that’s really cool. And that’s where this quorum sensing technology, that’s what has me really excited about it.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:30:48] Mm hmm. Yeah, definitely. I think the communication is very, very important. So I mean, I think we have really covered a little bit about diet. I want to just dove in a little more because you talked about you’ve talked a lot about plants. How do you feel about protein and the gut?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:31:11] Proteinas is needed, obviously, it’s it’s one of the macromolecules and the body uses it as fuel. It’s a longer lasting source of fuel when it when it comes to actual gut health. I mean, it’s it’s it’s needed. The important thing, though, when I look at it, when you look at macro ratios, we all know the science behind fiber, you know, and and the prebiotic fiber and the great science, their protein. It’s it’s kind of back and forth, you know, come protein, be inflammatory. You know, with with with a high protein, high fat diets, there’s a lot of back and forth there about, you know, is that pro-inflammatory with the gut versus a plant based diet? The thing that has me the most excited are these Fido biotics, these small molecules. So when we take food, we have macro molecules with protein, fat, carbohydrates. We have, excuse me, macronutrients excuse me, we have micronutrients, vitamins and minerals. And then we have phytonutrients. We talked about quercetin. We’ve talked about polyphenols in a broad sense, catechins, Ahmed’s short chain, fatty acids, esters. There’s all sorts of really interesting phytonutrients that for me, I think, holds the key and we need to work more on the discovery aspect of that for improved gut health. For me, that’s really where the treasure trove is.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:32:40] Mm-Hmm. Yeah, definitely. So it’s not really we really need to dig in a little bit more to figure out. We just know such a small amount, I think, at this point. Yeah, I do.

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:32:51] Yeah, yeah. What we do know, we do know that small organic compounds from plants like polyphenols and ellagic acids and Eugene, all and other small molecules do have beneficial effects on the gut. And so obviously we need to be eating eating those. We need to be eating a well rounded diet. That for me, is one of the cases why we should be eating plants, a lot more plants in their pure form. And then when research warrants it, I think smart science based supplementation is warranted and needed, not just the random, you know, I would take a supplement because, as you know, because I said I, they say, I should. I have no idea where it comes from. It’s just pumped out of some contract manufacturing facility. It’s nothing special. Whatever, you know, I am not an advocate of that, but smart, science based supplementation where you can actually show, yeah, you probably should need 50 milligrams of quercetin and 10 mg of Eugene, all because it does this for the gut. That combination can be really helpful.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:33:59] And you mentioned something that I want to touch back on because it happened on one of my other podcasts, which is short chain fatty acids, and I actually got a couple questions about short chain fatty acids. So what are they and how do we get them?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:34:15] Yeah. So when good bacteria, good and bad bacteria, when they break down and these these are factories, these are machines. And so they’re constantly taking in substances and they’re and they’re churning out substances. They’re producing bioactive compounds. And and when when bacteria undergo fermentation process with sugar and they produce short chain fatty acids. So an example of a short chain fatty acid is acetic acid, and we know acetic acid with vinegar. But there’s also there’s a lot of other short chain fatty acids. There’s there’s butyrate acid, there’s balloch acid ISO, the Larrick acid hexa noac acid and these acids produced by the gut. And what we know is that there is a cell signaling property that these short chain fatty acids have. So, you know, there’s more research that needs to be done, obviously. But we do know that these are part of the signaling entourage that good bacteria in the gut produce that that communicate with other with human cells in ways that we don’t quite understand exactly. But they do help to relay messages for cognition, for circulation, for digestive health, for membrane membrane transport and a lot of other facets that are that are really cool.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:35:35] I think even inflammatory bowel, there’s been incredible research on inflammatory bowel as it relates to short chain fatty acids.

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:35:43] Yes, CFA short chain fatty acids are one of the biggest indicators of good gut health. And so a lot of companies that are doing the testing where they’ll test your microbiome and you know, you send in a fecal samples to them and they go and they tested and they come back and say, you know, these are all the bacteria that you have in your gut. One of the biggest things right now that they’re that they’re giving the results, which is the most beneficial, is actually your short chain fatty acid amount. Because what we’re finding is that it’s short chain fatty acids are up. The higher they are, the more healthy the gut is, and that translates to all aspects of the body.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:36:24] Very cool. Well, I want to wrap up at this point, but this has been so interesting on everything gut health and the new technology that we’re learning associated with the guy. Is there anything that I didn’t ask that you think it’s important to add?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:36:42] I would just say that, you know, the gut is one of these final frontiers that it needs to be studied. There’s a lot that we don’t understand. I would say that we need to be discerning individuals and researchers that a lot of times you want to jump to conclusions when it comes to the gut health. And there’s a lot of theories out there, you know, that sound cool. They sound sexy. They sound logical. But when it comes to the actual science, it might not actually work that way. And so that’s why it’s it’s great having people like you and others that are that are disseminating correct information about the gods. And so I think we need to be continuing students. And then we need to utilize companies that are developing and harnessing new technologies to help to take care of the gut because it’s living, it’s dynamic. It’s not static. And, you know, just like the sanitizer, the hand sanitizer, that is really kind of a bad idea when it comes to supporting health of bacteria globally. And so we need new technologies coming online and we need to look for those and be discerning. And and there are good researchers and good companies out there that are doing some of those things, and we’ll see some of that start to come online here a bit more.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:37:55] Awesome. Where can people find you if they want to get in touch with you?

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:38:00] Yeah. So I have a I have a podcast. It’s called Discoveries Dr. Dan, and you’re going to be on the on the show here in a little bit. I am excited to chat with you and it’s going to be a blast so you can get that wherever you get your podcasts. I do some things on Instagram. I handles Dr. Dan Gubler and then I have a startup company called Brilliant, and we’re developing some new technologies. So one of one ingredient ingredient, one product that we sell is called Brilliant Defende, and it uses quorum sensing technology to support immune health. And we’ve have some clinical studies behind it, and it’s the only product that’s using quorum sensing inhibiting technology. So you could find that product on our website at Feel FTL Feel Brilliant dot com.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:38:48] Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here today. This has been awesome, just so informative, and it’s just been a pleasure spending time with you. So thank you.

Dr. Dan Gubler [00:38:57] Same here. Thank you very much.

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:39:01] Thank you for listening to the Gut Health Reset Podcast. Please make sure you subscribe, leave a rating and a review. More people can hear about the podcast and hey, take a screenshot of this episode and tagged Dr. Ann Marie on Instagram or Facebook at

Dr. Ann Marie Barter [00:39:15] Dr. Ann-Marie Barter. And for more resources, just visit drannmariebarter.com.