FHP – Ep. 14 – “Radiation Nation” feat. author, Daniel DeBaun

FHP - Ep. 14 - "Radiation Nation" feat. author, Daniel DeBaun

Dr. Barter talks about the dangers of EMF’s with Daniel DeBaun, author of the book, Radiation Nation.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:00:00] Thank you for joining us here on the Fearless Health podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Ann-Marie Barter, and today I get to interview Daniel DeBaun, who is an expert on Mpse. Today, we’re going to talk about what are EMFs? How to know if you’re affected by EMF exposure. How to know if the kids in school are being affected. And if maybe this is contributing to some of their behavioral problems. How to protect yourself and how to determine if you have multiple chemical sensitivity. Daniel DeBaun is an internationally recognized, influential expert in fielding electronic emissions and electromagnetic radiation protection. He has a particular focus on the effect of the exposure from mobile devices such as laptops, tablets and cell phones. He’s the inventor of Defender Shield and the coauthor of the book Radiation Nation.

Intro [00:01:01] Welcome to the Fearless Health podcast with host Dr. Ann-Marie Barter. Dr. Barter is on a mission to help people achieve their health and wellness goals and help men and women live their best lives fearlessly. Dr. Barter is the founder of Alternative Family Medicine and Chiropractic in Denver and Longmont, Colorado.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:01:22] Dan, thank you so much for being with us today, so excited to have you as a guest in here.


Daniel DeBaun [00:01:28] Dr. Ann-Marie, thanks so much for inviting me. I’m looking forward to chatting with with your audience.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:01:33] Awesome. So I just want to get into this because your book was so awesome. And just for all the listeners out there, can you go over what are EMTs?


Daniel DeBaun [00:01:48] Of course, electromagnetic radiation. MF. Has really only been around for us for less than 20 years in a predominant way. In fact, nature doesn’t generate electromagnetic radiation other than extremely, extremely low frequency stuff up to 15 hertz. But generally speaking, all of the electromagnetic radiation you and I are going to talk about is the stuff we make, the stuff we’ve generated with all the technologies we’ve introduced into our lives. So electromagnetic radiation is essentially to form to. We want to talk about the day and it’s the radio frequency stuff, the stuff cell phone uses, Wi-Fi, that your laptop uses, any of the electronic devices we have communicating with something else or generating radio frequency signals. And as a point of reference, it’s about one to two gigahertz, one to two gigahertz. That’s a fairly low frequency range relative to an x ray X-rays. Are terror terahertz? Hmm. The billions, trillions of cycles per second, and we’re talking about one to two gigahertz, which is about one to two billion cycles per second. Extremely, extremely low. Much lower. So we have we’ll talk about that. It’s the stuff that all the technology around us is generating. And the other kind is when you want to dry your hair, use a dryer electric motor and it has a coil inside. That’s extremely low frequency emissions. The stuff that’s a roughly 60 hertz really, really low 60 hertz. Your refrigerator motor generates it, your hair dryer generates it, your toaster generates it. So there’s that whole class of electronic AC stuff we have around us that also generates emissions. So roughly, that’s where where the kinds of discussions will fall into today.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:04:03] So roughly anything that plugs in is going to generate an EMF.


Daniel DeBaun [00:04:08] Any time you plug anything in, there’s an electrical current. And when there’s an electrical current, there is extremely low frequency emissions. Every time you use a laptop cell phone tablet, you use an Apple TV device using Wi-Fi, connecting to your router that’s using RF. And so let’s calibrate that a little bit. What is RF? Well, I’ll start with you. Take a microwave. You have a piece of meat. You put it in a microwave oven and you push the button. And what happens? There’s a electromagnetic radiation signal about 2.3 gigahertz that heats up the water between the cells, isolate the cells and, of course, Jimmy. Well, now you know why I told you it’s one to two gigahertz. It’s the same frequency rate as a microwave oven. The only thing is it’s much less power. Is that dangerous? Science suggests it is.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:05:14] And what are we seeing? You know, you started with the microwave oven, so we’ll we’ll go with that. What ill effects are you seeing, potentially with that level of frequency?


Daniel DeBaun [00:05:30] OK, so. Before we started, you mentioned something about 5G.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:05:35] Mm-Hmm.


Daniel DeBaun [00:05:36] So let’s talk about 4G and below, that’s one to two gigahertz. All the science we know about today, all the research, all the very well structured, designed a laboratory environment, testing has given us a really pretty good, solid understanding of what happens up to 4G. What we know is there are neurological impacts. We know there’s billions logical impacts. There could be eyes that hurt. You have tingling in your ears that may bother you. Headaches, fatigue, nausea, memory. Memory loss, eye strain. You can’t sleep right? A big deal when you start talking about the human body performance. So there’s so many well-structured studies that we have learned a whole lot about that for up to 4G and what the impact is in the body.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:06:37] And so did the impact of up to 40 is pretty significant, but now we’re rolling out 5G, yes. And so what’s I mean, what’s the difference between 4G and 5G? The effect on the body? Because when I look up at buildings and office buildings, they’re all over this side of office buildings. You’re not able to be shielded from that there within, I think, plenty of office buildings around where we are. I think we looked it up and where we are in a small town. There’s one hundred and thirty towers. And in our larger office there’s over one hundred and sixty within a very close proximity. So what ill effects are we seeing from that?


Daniel DeBaun [00:07:24] So let’s talk a little bit about. The RF signal from a cell phone, because that’s a little bit about what you’re talking about when you talk about what the 4G, you’re talking about a transmission from your cell phone, they can go up to four or five miles. It can transmit a very long distance and you can communicate. And then because that signal goes really, really far. And it’s in the one to two gigahertz space. And all the study and research we know about the impact to the cell are around one to two gigahertz. When you talk about 5G. Now, let’s talk a little bit about first. When you talk about a signal from a cell phone, you have a carrier speed that brings you to the cell phone. Within that signal, there’s digital information, it’s encrypted data that goes inside that’s encrypted by your machine, your cell phone. And then it’s decrypted at the other end. Those that digital signal. Is on off, on, off, on, off, on, off. So a lot of what we know about in terms of physical testing and impacts, the cells are about that on or off, on or off impact to the cell. That’s what’s basically the jackhammer of a cell phone up to 4G. Now let’s talk about 5G. The FCC has approved up to 300 gigahertz. So we said one to two billion cycles per second. This is up to 300 billion cycles per second. And we talked about a jackhammer right there that the boy jackhammer of a cell phone today. Well, with 5G, most of the signals in the first year or two next couple of years is going to be around 23 gigahertz and 60 gigahertz, little lower, but still pretty fast. And the way that signal will touch the far end is what they call MIMO multiple in, multiple out. So your cell phone will have two signals directed towards your cell phone. By the way, to your head as well. So now you have two separate digital signals that are hitting your. So what’s the impact of that? I don’t know. We know. We know it up to 4G does. And that we’ll talk about that a little bit. What happens to the cell? Because there’s really a breakdown of a cell that is actually pretty important to note. And in your case, you probably quite understand that when we talked about radio frequency stuff versus x rays, some in the industry talk about an x ray can kill you, but non-ionizing radiation, which is RF, won’t. Well, let’s talk a little bit about an x ray. An x ray is called ionized. What does that mean? Well, when you have an electron running around a neutron of a signal and and you have an x ray hitting you for a long period of time, that electron is knocked out of its orbit and it’s charged it becomes ionized. That’s why they call it ionized. And that’s what does the mutated cell and DNA damage of the cell. It’s not mechanical breakdown. Well, non-ionizing radiation has a different breakdown of a cell. But the research and science, we know that once the the cell becomes in an oxidative stress, roughly, it’s saying, forget, I don’t want to be hit with this anymore. It actually breaks down, and calcium penetrates the cell itself and through a series of processes, it mutates and DNA damages the cell. It’s a different mechanic, but iron eyes is as bad as non-ionizing or vice versa. There’s no difference.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:11:40] Wow. Yeah.


Daniel DeBaun [00:11:42] It’s really interesting to know. Right. Because people say it’s not a nice, well, do you don’t understand science, right? We have it right. I’m sorry. No, you go ahead. We have Dr. Powell in quite a number of other very brilliant researchers showing the physical mechanical breakdowns of a cell. And it’s not as if we don’t know that we do know it. We’ve clearly been able to replicate it. So the metadata is telling us very clearly there could be damage. And by the way, when I talk about a cell breakdown in the environment that we’re talking about today, which is occurred over the last 10 years when I when the 1970 1987, when the standards were created for the cell phone, I had a cell phone. I had no one to call. I had no one to call because my friends couldn’t afford a cell phone that was casual use. Today, your son, your daughter, six years old, is there casual use his hours at a time. And so when you think about that, the standards were created when there was a very different usage factor on cell phones. And today it’s very different. What’s the practical impact of that? Well, the standard was developed so it wouldn’t hit your head up by two degrees in 1987, because why would you heat it up? It’s a microwave signal. And as you may know, the biological impact is far more known to be a problem for the human than the thermal impact. So the standards was created by a six foot male model. It was actually an army group of men. Six foot male. It represents roughly three percent of the population. The rest of us have thick skulls or thinner skulls. The membranes are more pliable if you’re a woman, if your child is still forming. What does that mean? That same standard signal? Doesn’t enter this six foot male brain by one inch. It goes right to the head of a child. At the very youngest of ages, what’s the impact? We don’t know.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:14:17] Yeah, and I think you bring up such an important point with the difference of a child versus an adult or versus an adult six foot male. And children today are sitting down and using tablets all day long. And so I think that we’re going to have I mean, I’ve seen in practice just a huge spin up of autoimmunity, cancer, all kinds of things that I definitely didn’t experience as a child. Now I’ve seen a lot of children struggling with this. And in your opinion, how much of this is linked to cell phone tablet EMF use?


Daniel DeBaun [00:14:57] There’s no question whatsoever. I believe our environment has changed. And one of the influences is the electromagnetic radiation in our environment. The ambient is a hundred to a thousand times higher than it was 20 years ago. So what does that mean? Statistics from the industry, for example, will say that frontal lobe cancer hasn’t changed in the last 10 years. If you look at the data it has on the frontal lobe. But not the rest of the brain. So is there a correlation between the increase two percent compounded per year over the last 10 years in frontal lobe cancer related to cell phones? It could be very likely, maybe, but it’s really hard to prove. But this is what we know through research, we know that the frontal lobe is always where the cell phone is most prevalent and most impacting now want to talk a little bit about something different than that? The neurological impacts what we know is when I ran a technical laboratory for the Bell System, I, I had really complex laboratories and I used to look at the interference with one system to another system. They call the crosstalk in appearance. Well, with with the work we’re doing well, we’ve actually found is there appears to be. A similar kind of interference. With the brain. And the cell phone, so, you know, when you were saying before you, you haven’t seen that when you were a kid. Well, look at the kids now. Today they have laptops and cell phones in their hands is six years old. Is there impact to the frontal lobe? And by the way, I call that the supervisory function. That’s the most important part of the brain. I mean, part of the body, it controls everything and there’s interference, potentially not just the shell breaking down or cancer being created. I’m less worried about that, and I’m more concerned about the substantial increase in behavioral issues with kids. Those are more concerning for me because I think trends are seems to indicate that. And look, ADHD, it’s post and pre-natal in some research post and pre-natal. That means you’re in the womb. You’re getting influenced by the emissions around you. Then you get out and it gets worse. So there’s certainly a trend for that. And from a I like to cite in. In San Francisco, a few years ago, there was a physician and actually gave Marissa a bunch of women who were in their first trimester. What they found was that there was a three times more likely miscarriage rate when there was higher levels of emissions in their environment than when they were not. Does it influences? Is that substantially still statistically significant? No. And let me talk about that a little bit. If you and I wanted to prove that there was cancer related to exposures to children, we would have to take about 10000 children, put them in a room, feed them organic food. So it’s nice and clean. Make sure their air is environment is clean and radiate them for 10 to 20 years. Then we take another population of 10000 and would say, let’s compare them after 20 years. And if we see an increased rate of death and cancers and other serious illnesses, then we can conclusively statistically significantly say there’s a difference. Well, that’s why you don’t see it, because we’re not going to do that to our kids.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:19:13] No, we’re not going to do it right.


Daniel DeBaun [00:19:15] But so so that’s sort of the problem is that to really prove and demonstrate there’s a clear link is very hard to do. And like every other kind of environmental introduction in our lives, so often takes 20, 30, 40 years to figure out what its real impact is


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:19:34] right and how. I mean, with the kids having to sit down with tablets all day long, it’s part of their schoolwork in their curriculum. How can these kids protect themselves, or how can parents protect their children from the EMF radiation?


Daniel DeBaun [00:19:51] Let’s talk about that in a general way. I have a rule. I have a rule of thumb. You want to manage the bees in the room. One bee won’t hurt you. A thousand will kill you. That’s sort of like a general analogy that I use. So any toxin in your environment? If you can pull it out of that environment, that’s a good thing. So if you had a guess, a guest can opened up in your living room and was spewing out volatile organic compounds and you were getting sick. What’s the best way to fix it? Take it out of the room, right? And that that that’s one of the bees in a room like all of a sudden, we’re getting many, many more toxic bees in the room and those electromagnetic radiation bees. Your router is transmitting into that environment. Your cell phone is transmitting into that environment your laptop is transmitting. So all of a sudden you had where 10 years ago you had none of these transmissions in the room. Now it’s almost swamping your environment that you’re living in. So how do you fix it? Turn them off. Plug it in with wire. You don’t need to have a. A Wi-Fi connection. I have my my laptop. I haven’t told my laptop away. I have it wired with internet wire. I don’t. When I use my Roku controller, I have an ethernet cord to it. I don’t have a Wi-Fi with my cell phone. There’s street transmissions over cell phone, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi and cell phone transmissions. Do I need all of them? No, I don’t use my Wi-Fi. I’ve never use my Bluetooth. I don’t have transmitters off. I just use the Wi-Fi. The cell phone. And very importantly, I moved more than four feet away from me. By simply moving this stuff away, there’s a logarithmic drop down the power levels that influence, does the body move it away when it’s close? An RF signal suppresses immune, something may not even note. But Dr Holly Johansen, he’s been doing this study work for hypersensitive for 30 years, and his research is clearly demonstrated a direct link to immune suppression. Not a good thing, right? That means your body needs to be prepared more than ever before in this new environment we’re living in until we somehow control the toxins that we’re introducing in their environment and in.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:22:37] How can you know you? You talked about pregnant women that were more likely to have a miscarriage when they were exposed to higher levels of radiation. Right? How can a woman protect herself from that when she’s pregnant? Is there other than moving the cell phone away or the laptop away? Is there something else to do because the radiation is all around us? Yeah.


Daniel DeBaun [00:23:08] Truly, the best thing you can do is move it away. I mean, literally, that’s the easiest thing to do and move it away. I have a company that sells shielding, but you never have to buy anything I have. If you’re simply diligent in your environment. So what I always say is like, you router at night. Get a little controller. Turn it off, and now you’re automatically turn it back on at seven o’clock when you’re up. It’s not a big deal. $10 to control it and you’re safe in your bedroom. You definitely want to make sure there was nothing I had. I was talking with a podcast, the once wonderful lady bright, bright lady, and I was telling her melatonin is disrupted by our signals, and she was being very polite, said, Oh, that’s good. And I said, Do not have a cell phone in your bedroom. And that’s one way we know that there is an influence of melatonin. That’s one of the 4000 body functions that potentially are interfered with when you have a cell phone or any other RF signal within an environment. About four or five weeks later, she calls me up and she says, I didn’t believe you. Yes, yes. I didn’t believe you. And she said, my husband and I are sleeping. I said, No, no, you know, now you know why?


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:24:39] That’s great. So when you’re looking at this in determining, you mentioned a little bit people that are hypersensitive, hypersensitive to EMFs or or to identify if they’re sensitive to MS. I think it’s a good idea to move it out. How can you identify if you’re somebody that’s hypersensitive, you’re hypersensitive to this,


Daniel DeBaun [00:25:03] you you’ll you’ll like this. I have a test. Let’s say here, like this smell perfume. Do you like to smell gas? If you don’t. You are multiple, chemically sensitive. Mm hmm. If you are multiple, chemically sensitive, your electro hypersensitive as well, you actually can feel it. But particularly those who are extreme, it can get really, really pretty bad, as you may know. And and it’s a perfect test because is complaining about when I go to my laptop closely, my hands tingle. When I put a cell phone to my head, it hurts. My eye hurts when I put a cell phone. Well, that’s because your electric hypersensitive and your body is responding and saying, get it away. So one of the best things to ask is are you met multiple chemical sensitive and 100 percent are elected hypersensitive as well? And and by the way. A few years ago, 15 to 20 percent of the population had some form of multiple chemical sensitivity. It’s growing beyond 20 percent now it’s it’s becoming more chronic. And when when I talk about electromagnetic radiation. That’s the big problem with up to 4G, that’s the huge problem when you get the 5G.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:26:35] So what I’m seeing in practice is I am looking at low decile levels a lot, especially when somebody is chemically sensitive. Yeah, and I’ve seen a lot of people being depleted with go to buy on. Have you seen any link between glutathione depletion and radiation exposure?


Daniel DeBaun [00:26:53] Absolutely. Zinc. He’s 100 percent in hypersensitive zinc. The lack of excuse me, the lack, the lack of zinc, there are clear body indicators that sort of are pointing to the kinds of body response. And I don’t know if you’re familiar with this, Dr. Murray, but have you ever heard of KDR? No. OK, let’s talk about that because it’s important for you. We talk about oxidative stress, and that’s the imbalance of the free radicals to the antioxidants, right? And so when in the past? Three or four years passed, everyone talked about oxidative stress to the cell, and that was the body responds to electromagnetic radiation. Well, yeah, you’re not getting enough oxygen. We know that. But is that really a good characterization? And very recently, there’s been actually some real solid work about KDR cell danger response. I have a friend of mine who’s a biochemist, and I used to tell her when we were investigating this stuff, a cell, the cell. It doesn’t invent a different way responding to a toxin. And look, the amount of radiation is a toxin that’s the body doesn’t know the difference between that and the multiple gas of volatile organic compounds. And so then we finally found a lot of body of work around CD-RW. And all of a sudden, it’s sort of describing pretty sophisticated li how the body’s reacting to this toxin. And we’ve been able to actually, based on that sort of figure out ways of helping the body improve its response to emissions like that and believe it or not, neurological. It starts with neurological. First, we found you appreciate that you can be walking in your brains asleep. In other words, the brain patterns, the brainwaves get so disrupted from the crosstalk, interference from the ambient RF in the environment that is disrupting brain function. And that gets worse because all of a sudden you’re not sleeping right so your body’s not recovering. The mitochondrial functions are depressed. There’s a lot of spending stuff that goes on. And so you may want to spend a little time looking at that because what we’ve found is that that’s a great way of looking how the body’s responding and maybe give you insight into some of the things you can do. Although I’m sure, you know, circadian rhythm of the body, all those kind of basic stuff needs to be adhered to or you’re not going to be able to respond well anyway, you know?


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:29:58] You know, what’s interesting is I’m running tests quite a bit and I see a lot of mitochondrial dysfunction across the board. It’s pretty much consistent and in every other patient, you know, every time I run a test and these folks are healthy, like they’re working on being healthy and you see it across the board.


Daniel DeBaun [00:30:18] And do you know that there’s a direct link with frontal lobe new moods? Brain function within the frontal lobe that directly correlates to my mitochondrial performance, not recovering. A direct link 100 percent of the time. So if you can measure it, I don’t know if you’ve used the lobby. It’s a it’s a brain control. You can actually measure the performance of the frontal lobe and you can see and correlate body performance by measuring the resistance of the frontal lobe. Regions.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:31:01] Wow. Yeah, functional neurology is not really my stick, but I mean, I think I’ve heard great things about it.


Daniel DeBaun [00:31:07] There’s no


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:31:08] question that, yeah, if


Daniel DeBaun [00:31:10] you’re if you’re dealing with this in your practice, there’s no question. One of the things we realized very quickly is if you are. Walking in in your brain, sleeping. How is your body recovering? They won’t recover when you’re sleeping, the wrong stuff’s going on, and it’s so important to get the pattern right and correct it. And you can fix the leaky gut, which is always the case, by the way. Always, right? And you can fix that. But you got to fix the brain first, and they use this couple of products. Brain Tap is one of them that I know clinics are using now, and they they get the brain to be functioning the way it should be. They use Wabi to measure the difference differences, and they can really help now find ways of doing some repair to this. And by the way, I didn’t mention this before. Electromagnetic radiation. What is it? And we spoke a little bit at all. Ralph and e.l.f. Blue light is also electromagnetic radiation, the color you see on the rainbow. The blue component is almost not quite, but it’s almost. Ionized radiation. Ultraviolet light. You’re worried about skin cancers. It’s ultraviolet is the the kinds of emission that is known to cause cancers under heavy exposures, while blue light is right below that. And in other words, it’s strong enough to be influential. And when you talk about that, like I used to say, for example, I had a friend of mine, a physician who was telling me about a woman that was in his office looking at screen all the time, and she was getting dry eye for 10 years. I said, Are you sure that she has dry eye or is it is it related to the screen she looks at and the blue light being generated by the screen? And I said, I’ll tell you what I’m and I’ll send you a parable like glasses. He put them on. Within two hours, her eyes cleared up. It was the exposure to the blue light component that you had been looking at for years. So I always talked about the blue light component, potentially. We know through research and science dry when we know that for sure, but it’s also premature macular degeneration that also is associated with light exposure. We’re now learning is there is a path between the eye. And the inner parts of the controlling brain function that starts beginning to have could be the source of balance. And of course, even the neurologist wasn’t even sort of thinking that could be the case. But the fact is, this environment that we’re we’re living in is is actually beginning to affect us in a lot of ways we’ve just never understood.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:34:24] So, I mean, primarily the first probably symptom of this is a headache more than likely or balance issues. One of those two is probably the starter


Daniel DeBaun [00:34:32] ringing other years. Right. All of this is directly connected to the second big shock and victor organ. It’s the thing that’s controlling. It’s the most pertinent part of the brain control.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:34:44] And, you know, is any of this dose dependent for people? I mean, normally it’s not, but I’m just curious if it’s dose dependent in this particular situation.


Daniel DeBaun [00:34:55] Oh, I’ll give you the long version of that, because. In theory, there, there there shouldn’t be. But because of the KDR function it can get, really. In other words, you can be electric hypersensitive. We fix your brain, we fix your body, and yet you have a cell phone. You, you’ll feel it. Now, it’s not really affecting you the way it did before you came to my clinic and I fixed you, right? But yet your body’s still responding. So it takes very little from a practical point of view. It does take more. And in fact, the way I describe it is you won’t. I’ve used his cell phone for three minutes. It gets much, much worse. The longer you use it, duration of exposure is really one of the major kinds of things you worry about. And the other one, as we mentioned before, I didn’t refer to it as this, but distance. Distance and duration. You’ve got to be worried about both.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:36:00] So there’s a huge debate, just going back to cell phones. Parents don’t know when it’s appropriate to give their child a cell phone, right? Do you have a comment on what’s a safe age?


Daniel DeBaun [00:36:19] The 23 year adult army was the standard. That’s 1.6 watts per kilogram. If you’re lucky, the manufacturer stays within that number. That goes all the way through a child when you are 12 years old, maybe halfway through. It keeps on being less and less as you get older and potentially less damaging as you get older. But you know what? I got to tell you side story I invented, my boys were visiting me 12 years ago, about seven years ago. They were using a laptop on their lap. My wife says I want grandchildren and I and I said, no, those those transmissions, they can’t be bothersome. No, you’re absolutely wrong. You don’t really talk about them. So this is the intuition of a woman, you know, arguing with it, right? So I said, Well, let me look at it a little bit. And so I began looking into the research and I found that after about three to four hours, twenty five percent of the male sperm is immobile. So I said, wow, how come we don’t know this, by the way, that’s why I wrote the book because there was so much information. No one knew about. So I ended up building a device because I knew they weren’t going to throw it out. But I also knew that the distance problem would be solved because I could shield the signal from hitting their groin area. And fast forward today, I still don’t have any grandchildren, but I do have.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:37:53] I might not be because enough is not right now because of that. So with males, you see sperm motility reviews. What do you do with women on the female reproductive use?


Daniel DeBaun [00:38:09] Yeah, that’s something I haven’t talked a little bit very much about, but we know that this from a study work, a very large study, work in Europe, that there’s roughly a two percent growth in the womb. Directly related to electromagnetic exposure, a small percentage of that becomes tumor tumors cancerous. So we already know there’s a link, there’s another link. In fact, Dr. Powell talks about this and I don’t believe it. But but I’ll share his view if you take a cell phone and you give it to a 12 year old girl. She puts it in her pocket, a back pocket that’s close proximity to the egg. There’s mute there, there’s a potential for mutation for DNA damage, damage that may be in her sub tending generation children, she was. And so there’s the concern not of just the woman itself, but her children and their children’s children. I don’t believe that so much because I believe in statistics. You know, what’s the probability of every 12 year old girl putting in her back pocket and every one of them having DNA damage cells very low? But there is possibilities, and certainly research has shown that there is those links.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:39:36] So ultimately, you know, it affecting the egg could affect the genetics of the unborn baby, which I mean, we see with nutrition all the time. I mean, we know the egg in the sperm are formed four months before. And so if we really want a couple to have a healthy baby, we start four months before.


Daniel DeBaun [00:39:55] Absolutely. I had probably the most. He’s certainly the longest living radiologist in the U.S., he’s a brilliant, brilliant man. And when I wrote the book, I asked him to take a look at it and his whole world was research over the last 25 30 years. Brilliant, man. Dr Prasad. And he read it, and he said, I had no knowledge to my whole life. And you are providing insight to me. But you know what? The point about impact in the womb? I’m not sure. I believe that. And then one day he called me up about a year later and he said, You know what? I had a young woman in my practice. She came in, she had a baby and that baby had the most obscure genes that they’ve ever seen. And he said, You know what? That’s what I remembered you telling me that they could be that link. So that’s in the dodo. It’s certainly not science, but I don’t know. I’ll tell you, I got into building cell phone shields because of an adult story. These parents gave a six year old girl a cell phone. And within a year, she had frontal lobe cancer and passed away. It really that’s in his total, but she wouldn’t have that problem if if she took precaution and kids don’t know that now. Are you sure?


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:41:30] Yeah, I feel like no one’s really talking about this. This isn’t. This isn’t, you know, this should be yelled from the rooftops. And I feel like a lot of the environmental chemicals that were exposed to is very hush hush. And I mean, it’s personally what I do all day long in practice, but I just think they should be yelled from the rooftops.


Daniel DeBaun [00:41:49] Oh, there’s no question about it. And a little bit of the problem, as I have mentioned, Dr. Powell. Dr. Holly, your hands in there that does Dr. Carpenter out of New York. There are so many people. And Dr. Max Moskowitz of Berkeley, this all these people saying What’s going on? We know there’s thousands and thousands of research studies, thousands that come to the same conclusion. Now, if I’m a skeptic. Because of statistics, I would be a little concerned. I would think there may be some precaution I should take in my life. Because we know the standards were for six foot male. That was using the phone occasionally. That is absolutely not true today. And they were thermal, everything you and I talked about is biological,


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:42:53] and there’s no legislation in the state that I live in, specifically on 5G cell phone towers, cell phone use. There’s no legislation around it. Do you know why that is?


Daniel DeBaun [00:43:06] I can tell you exactly what the FCC issued some governance. About local municipalities, they’ve prevented local municipalities from being resistive to the installation, they it cannot be turned down in local local municipalities because of health reasons. You may not look at how it la how it looks in the in the in the thing, but you can’t turn it down for health. This is law. Now I’m going to give you an idea of what that means when you have a cell phone. We talked about four or five miles. The transmitters on the cell towers are 60 watts, 60. Remember 60? Well, 5G is so fast. It can only go seven hundred and fifty feet. So you have a cell tower, every other house on your block. That’s 20 watts. If you look at studies around 60, what’s anybody within a mile of a 60, what signal is three times more likely to have a cancer? I have no idea. With 5G. In fact, if anybody tells you they really understand what 5G is going to do, they have no idea what they’re talking about, why there’s been literally no study by absolutely anybody in the industry. But this is what I know at 18 gigahertz bugs. The body of your your god bribes. Is that a good thing? Maybe, maybe not. I know that 90 years when I remember seeing you in college and I saw you being run away because there were guns that the government was pointing at you and breaking up that crowd. That’s a 90 gigahertz electromagnetic radiation signal that happens to resonate with your sweat gland. It’s guilt, so it absorbs it. What happens when you get really, really hot and you run? So a 90 gigahertz? I know it’s not so good. I know it 18 gigahertz. It’s not so good. But the rest. No one can really tell you because we’ve not studied it at all.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:45:50] So this very it’s it really is


Daniel DeBaun [00:45:52] really, really scary to me because I was from the research side and I never accepted anybody’s comment about what you’re telling me is legitimate. I have to verify that through my science, and none of that has happened. But this is what I can tell you if you are projecting our understanding up to 4G. I would probably project it’s worse than better, right? And it could be much worse. I was mentioning to. We have relationships with the clinics. One of the clinics there was a guy that the court had in Portland, and he called me up one Saturday and he says, I’m burning up. I’m burning up. What’s going on? I said to him, How do I know what’s going on? I don’t know your environment, but I said, Did you get new service, telephone service? Did you get cable service? Oh yeah. We just got new cable. I said, Well, go, look at what they gave you. And it turned out they gave him a 5G router. He could feel it before he saw it. And he’s not too hypersensitive, by the way. So he was more sensitive than normal. So the KDR response was a higher, quicker response. And that exposure than not so.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:47:19] So we’re definitely all exposed to this. I mean, there’s no way to get around it. I mean, even if you don’t think you’re exposed to a cell phone tower or whatnot, you absolutely are. So in my opinion, I’ve had a real hard time with EMF readers because they don’t really feel like they’re that backed by science to me.


Daniel DeBaun [00:47:39] They don’t really understand physics.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:47:41] I’d really like to get your perspective on the EMF readers and what we could maybe rely on or depend on to know how much we’re being exposed.


Daniel DeBaun [00:47:53] Yeah, that’s a great question. Meters can be orders of magnitude incorrect. Why? Because they’re not laboratory meters, they’re they may be right. They may not be right. You have no idea. So when you pick up a meter and you think you’re going to die because the thing’s beeping, read to you. That doesn’t mean there’s danger. It just simply says that Meter thinks there’s danger. But if you spend time trying to figure out where the bees in the room are. You’re better off spending your time doing that than trying to use the media to tell you what you would already know if you were paying attention to your own environment, like like we were talking about smart meters. People always ask me about smart meters. It’s one gigahertz signal that is periodic every second, every 30 seconds, every minute, every hour, every 24. It depends on who you’re doing. It with function. It’s doing if it’s on the side of your garage and you have a two car garage and your bedroom’s on the other side of the garage. That’s 25 feet. Are you worried about a one one one gigahertz transmission? Absolutely not. If it’s on the wall, your bedroom, move your bed, because now it’s constant load over an eight hour period, duration and intensity are high. Move your bed, and I actually I’m not being facetious when I say that he can influence you and you won’t even realize it until your body disruption is worse and worse and worse. And by the way, I always tell this to everybody. I talk to multiple, chemically sensitive. It’s 80 percent women. Electric hypersensitivity 80 percent women.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:49:57] Why do you think that is?


Daniel DeBaun [00:49:58] Hormones, aluminum from the. The intake of of drugs, there’s a lot of reasons which we really science doesn’t understand yet, by the way, these brain differences and when the crosstalk we talked about a little bit about that that could be, but no one really can pinpoint it. But it’s a fact. And by the way, I beat that. I beat everyone who I talked to about that. Tell me why women? Because they’re suffering more than men. And we noticed that too. Yeah, that’s good. That’s good to hear. That’s good to hear.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:50:39] It’s interesting. Just on a side note, I’ve also seen in those women, I’ve also seen a lot of mold exposure as well as like as it’s just a clinical correlation. I’ve seen other exposures, but definitely mold exposure, sometimes benzene


Daniel DeBaun [00:50:52] a cell to cell. Hmm. Just not inventing a different way of responding. And with mold, by the way, you don’t clean the air, you find the source. Right? And it’s a volatile compound. This war is it’s not the mold. It’s spore. But you’re right. And there is and there’s a 100 percent correlation because as I said before, there’s a 100 percent correlation between multiple chemical sensitivity, molecular hypersensitivity. The body’s responding the same way. And it’s really hard to tell what it is. You really need to make sure you clean both environments, the electrical environment, as well as a chemical environment.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:51:33] So just to recap, it sounds to me like the smart meters are really backed by science across the board. So it’s really about paying attention to what is in your environment and looking around and just noticing that and ultimately changing your environment to be away from. Right? Ms. That you’re noticing


Daniel DeBaun [00:51:54] then, Dr. Ann-Marie, you’re absolutely right. It is not the time to panic about the potential exposures. The time is to think about the environment and how you can modify your environment to be more friendly for your body and your family’s body. It’s really true. The FCC is not going to protect you. I’ll tell you a little story. The chairman of the FCC that approved 5G. Was the chairman of cheating? Thirty years earlier, he was the head of the consortium representing all the cell phone companies.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:52:34] Oh my goodness. Yeah.


Daniel DeBaun [00:52:36] So if you think you’re going to be protected by the federal government standards bodies? Not necessarily true.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:52:44] Wow, that’s that’s a conflict of interest. Definitely a big without a doubt. Chris, just about anything.


Daniel DeBaun [00:52:50] Just talk about the fox in the henhouse. I may like give me a break. Yeah, really true. And it always takes a What is it? The. You used to cook your french fries in it, the oil. What is it? Trans fats? Oh, gotcha. There was a lonely biochemist 35 years ago that said, Eggs aren’t killing you. It’s the trans fats we’re using. It took how many years before was the ban. Last year was the first. It was banned. That’s how long it took.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:53:33] It’s incredible. Incredible. So I think the other thing that I’ve really struggled with is people just put these chips on their cell phone and say, I’m safe. And to me, it’s really been hard for me to find science based articles on these particular devices and then also looking at what I’ve researched that you don’t have. The EMF readers aren’t really reading correctly. It’s also what I think science has stated, or at least what I’ve seen. Yeah, this is my opinion. So I’m curious what is something that we can use to protect ourselves? And how is would your defender shield products? How are they superior than some of these other products?


Daniel DeBaun [00:54:20] I had a. A chit chat argument with she. She was a red blood cell expert, and she was proving that electromagnetic radiation modifies the blood red blood cell count. I said, who gives a? Who gives a darn about that? I’m looking for the more serious, more permanent. So measuring. Temporary body response is not necessarily an indication of a problem. That leads me to when you have someone claim. That they have a device. That can protect you. You want to look at the Independent. Research laboratory that verified their claim independently, and it’s not indirect. The blood cell count, for example. That’s indirect. It’s not direct. So I always say something, everyone that they really should look for the independent, unbiased study work that substantiates the claim. There are so many that don’t understand physics and make physics claims, and I won’t go into the details. But there are a lot of claims being made about how this somehow. Eliminates the exposure and you’re perfectly safe. Yet you’re still talking to the cell tower. That’s a conflict of statements physically impossible to do, so when they say I’ve done something to the signal and it’s still being connected to the transmitters. Something doesn’t seem right. And many of the things we’ve looked at, they simply really don’t understand the problem. They may do something. I haven’t seen an independent study, nor have they been able to prove their claim. So I always caution everyone to really pay attention, the best things you can do is distance and time. If you can’t do that, try to find something that can be independently verified. That’s functional.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:56:45] And your products are independently verified. Oh, yeah,


Daniel DeBaun [00:56:49] I actually I went, I actually Dr. Rand actually knew more about the study, the testing than they did, because that’s what I did for a living. And but you can’t trust me, you shouldn’t trust me. So I went to laboratories that I knew were certified to do this kind of testing. And I said, Tell me how our products perform. And they told me, that’s what we publish, not what I think it is. So it’s really sort of important to have that on business because people are making claims. I’ll give you an example.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:57:29] For sure, there


Daniel DeBaun [00:57:30] would be talk. We talked about 5G. I have. Military grade design detail teams working to build muscle building. I have prototypes. The laboratories in the US market cannot test it because they don’t go up to 300 gigahertz. None in the US. So if you’re reading something and said, look, we’re 5G compatible, you’ve got to be joking. You have nothing that can prove that you make that claim. So people are beginning to make those claims and it’s just not true. You really got to be careful because it could be a life in some cases is really unimportant.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:58:17] So I think really and correct me, if I’m wrong, the really big take home message here. Distance from your devices. You’re making sure you’re not putting these devices on your lap and whatnot, not on your organs. Don’t be putting, say your cell phone in your back pocket. Maybe as much as you can put your cell phone up cell phone on airplane mode, so it’s not transmitting constantly. And that is, let’s say your bed is by a smart meter to move your bed right to be a little bit away from that. So you’re not just constantly patrons, basically. And so those are really the big take home message is


Daniel DeBaun [00:58:56] exactly it’s simple stuff you can do within the day. If you have a router 10 feet away from you, that’s probably sort of OK at night. Forget it. You do not want it in that environment. So you really want to be conservative. Move it away. Turn it off. Make sure your environment is clean. And honestly, making that environment clean is the best thing you can do. And this the simplest thing to do. Ethernet when you can wire your your, your, your devices. If you’re going to use your cell phone and you put it directly against your head, try to limit the time. Don’t spend too much time on it. If you want to spend more time. Put it in and put it in your hand and put it on speakerphone. If that doesn’t work for you, get a headset. I’m wearing a headset. You’re wearing a headset, right? Just get a headset. It’s better than against your head. Why? I say that? Well, here’s a point of fact in research a cell phone generates 1.6 twice per kilogram if that signal is starting here. How far can it go? The six foot male one foot, a one inch excuse me,


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [01:00:18] I was like, Wow,


Daniel DeBaun [01:00:21] if you have a blood brain barrier down. Not protecting the brain itself. There can be a frontal lobe cell. Mutated at Dot one. What’s 15 times less power level? So he can get fairly serious if it’s long term use, and if you’re concussed where you have a blood brain barrier down, that’s not so good. And by the way, 20 percent, 30 percent of us have concussions.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [01:00:54] And I would even guess the blood brain barrier being down is is quite a high number. I mean, I see quite a high number of deaths. I’m not even just being concussed or having a concussion, but just because of the environment really overall.


Daniel DeBaun [01:01:10] Yeah, by the way, look, the hypersensitive have concussion like symptoms. It’s really interesting how that’s why the body’s the body’s cells, the cells react in the same way to the toxic environment that’s in.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [01:01:27] This is this has been awesome and incredible, where can people find your products?


Daniel DeBaun [01:01:33] They can find my book Defend the Radiation Nation, which, by the way, I wrote for the layperson, I was so frustrated there was so much research and no one knew about it. The practitioners didn’t know about it. The researchers did, but they talk to themselves. They didn’t talk to the public. And then the complexity of what is the IMF? It’s not that complicated. So the book Radiation Nation is a book that tries to help you understand our environment today. And Radiation Nation can be founded. A shield icon defend a shield icon is a web site that actually has. The book, of course, has a lot of information about. The science and research that’s been happening, including 5G, we have pages and pages of. Here’s if you want to understand what this environment’s like. Read our 5G website and we also have all the product lines we have produced over the years.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [01:02:42] Awesome. Thank you so much for being with us here today, Dan. We really appreciate that.


Daniel DeBaun [01:02:47] Well, thanks so much for inviting me. I really do appreciate it.


Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [01:02:50] Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed learning with us today, please give us a five star review. Comment like and share our podcast with your friends and family. As always, if you’d like to learn more information about today’s guest, please head over to FearlessHealthPodcast.com for links to their site and other educational resources.

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