Kicking off 2020 with new fitness goals is easy with help from Dr. Barter and guest, Tanja Shaw
Intro [00:00:03] Welcome to the Fearless Health podcast with host Dr. Ann-Marie. Dr. Barter is on a mission to help people achieve their health and wellness goals and help men and women live their best lives fearlessly. Dr. Barter is the founder of Alternative Family Medicine and Chiropractic in Denver and Longmont, Colorado.
Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:00:24] Tanja, thank you so much for joining us here today. It’s so awesome to have you on the podcast. Would you mind just taking us through how you got into into all of this lifestyle coaching?
Tanja Shaw [00:00:37] Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me, and I just am excited to be here with you and your listeners as well. So they say that we teach what we need to learn the most, and that is exactly what got me to where I am now. I started in the health and wellness industry back in 2004, right after graduating from university with my kinesiology degree and really just got right into the science side of things. I got to thinking about nutrition. Of course, back then we was very much about high carb, low fat. That was the era back then. A lot about exercise and just. But I was also at that time very focused on weight loss and on body size and body image. And although I could help my clients, you know, transform their bodies and I could help them lose weight and all that kind of good stuff. They can never really sustain it. And so they will lose the weight and then habits will come back in, or they just were not able to keep it off. And at the same time, I also had a very rocky relationship with food, with my own body, always wanting to change, always pursuing perfection, either swinging from being like hyper restrictive and all on or just not caring. And it prevented me from really engaging in life. And that’s the best way, I think, to describe it. When so much of your thought energy and your mental energy is instead of thinking about your relationships and and like your travels and your career and your mission and your kids, it’s like a lot of focus is on just excited or worry about food, and a lot of people go through this. And for a lot of people, you know, the before and after photos are of when they’re, you know, 250 pounds and they lose the weight. And that’s what my before picture was actually me and a much smaller size. But I was really just living in fear at that point, and I didn’t allow myself to live my life. I remember going to a trip to Paris with my husband, Keith, and I was just for the whole two weeks as my biggest concern was that I’d come back and I had gained weight, and that’s no way to live. And so when I first really recognize that I was, you know, through the rituals of the daily weigh ins and taking off your clothes and standing in the mirror and looking like looking at your body and going first to make sure that no other scale as low as possible and just how that hijacked my life. I remember that one morning just looking at myself in the mirror and recognizing that I was treating my body just like someone would treat an animal who’s going to be slaughtered like just measuring the different parts of your body instead of treating you like a whole person. And how disrespectful that was to me and how much of my life I was just not living. And when you look back at the end of your life, I just really like what I was thinking about if I were to look back at the end of my life and if I cower regretful, I would be if I look back and I thought, Oh my gosh, like, you wasted your 30s and your twenties and your 40s and your 50s, like just not being happy with your body. You’re not really looking at life like I’ve been so upset with myself. And that really was the turning point that I needed to do something different. And that is exactly what I mean best. It is why I do. What I’m doing now is to help other people just really have a more peaceful, natural relationship with food. So really, you can stop thinking about food so much and your body and just go and live your life.
Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:04:39] Wow, I think that’s a really powerful story, and I just in my practice, I feel like I can relate that to so many women specifically versus men. I hear that a lot more or a similar story or measurement or a big gain a couple pounds. And then they feel like, you know, the train’s on fire and then they go off and they engage and they really, really struggle. And then if they quote unquote fall off the wagon, then they feel like they’re off and they failed and they feel like a failure. It’s such a deep level which to me is incredibly sad. So I just think so many people can relate to that story. What do you think drives people to have that love hate relationship with food?
Tanja Shaw [00:05:36] Is there really a question it’s going to differ from person to person? And before we get into that, I do want to. Women tend to identify with that more because we talk about a lot more. But I also do work and to be honest, I do work mostly with women in this space. But I also do work with men. And there are a lot of men with disordered eating, with body image with because we’re still whether you’re a female or male like the the model that we’re supposed to be aspiring to is equally unattainable. For women, it’s like now we have to get to be strong and muscular and everything like that. And then, you know, you got to look a certain way to you. So I think it’s driven in, you know, for both, for both sexes. And we just happen to talk about a lot more, which is good that we do and hopefully through this conversation. If your podcast listeners are male, it’s like it is relatable as well. But your question about where it got started, I mean, that’s just it. It’s going to vary from person to person. And here is the things that most times it gets started so young. It’s something like some traumatic event that happened when you were. And when I say trauma, I’m not talking about necessarily big trauma, but there is something that happened that you remember. Maybe it was when you were eight years old and you just recognize that you are a little bit bigger than your friends and then you decide, Hey, I can change this or and then maybe you go through the diet cycle and you start to lose weight at 8:00 or early teens or whatever, and you start getting, you know, comments and you start getting external validation of your body size. And that can be something that you start to relate your worth and your success based on that number or what your body looks like for a lot of the clients that I work with. It happens really early when they’re, you know, sometimes when they’re five years old or like, say, eight years old, and they’re told sometimes by a very well-meaning parent or caregiver that they need to lose weight, that they have to stop eating so much that I mean, I have kids who were put on Weight Watchers when they were in their very early years. Maybe you were told that you were fat or. And here’s the thing, too, is that weight and body size, it’s a very obvious trait like there’s no hiding it and we just start to compare ourselves to other people. And there are a lot of people who also do have a very natural, normal relationship with food. But at some point something happens that kind of triggers us and shifts that relationship. I mean, kids in left to their own children are very body neutral and are very intuitive with their eating. Like my son, Jacob is 10, and he will call me chubby all the time and my mom. But to him, it doesn’t mean it’s not a bad thing. It’s just that I happen to have. I mean, I would. I don’t call myself chubby. I don’t think I’m chubby, but you’ll like, touch me. They’re softer than his arms and there’s no judgment around it. So, yeah, I think at some point something happens that and for like Billy, remember what that point was, where they started the cycle and they started just recognizing that they could change their body and the affirmations that they get from other people when they start to do?
Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:09:08] I think that’s know. I remember from my own past I was a competitive dancer and we had to wear very form fitting outfits on the stage. You know, it was really interesting because judges would come through and there were two girls who were incredible dancers, but they were bigger. And so I remember like listening to the tape and listening to these judges with these two girls that had all the business in the world being there and and they made them feel. So insecure and just watching that whole industry revolves so much around body watching us get cut based on the way that we loved watching where I was from Texas at this time, watching Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders have to weigh in all the time and be a pound or two overweight. I mean, that is discouraging to your spirit. I mean, in a huge way in there so much you’re right judgment around the way that you look at a certain point and that is incredibly sad, right?
Tanja Shaw [00:10:14] It is. And your example there is like is the perfect example at those girls who went through like that might be the the turning point of, you know, their journey where they either decide they’re going to start dieting or maybe they’ll be resilient. And not really. But it does happen. And I think looking back too, is that when, like adults in our childhood told us things or that we might perceive now as being triggering or has set us into this, you know, the path of dieting and up down and disordered eating is a lot of it was done out of wanting to keep us safe and wanting to do the best for us as well. I mean, that was your example is actually probably doesn’t fall in line with that, that, you know, parents perhaps were afraid that their child would become a larger sized child and be teased at school, so that parent is going to do their best to prevent that from happening. And so I think just also just recognizing that your triggers that you might have from being a child or whenever that happen, if the intention wasn’t always malicious, I guess kind of an important just to have perspective on that as you go through things.
Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:11:33] Yeah, so when somebody finds a triggering event in their life is part of what you do to unwind that triggering event, just make them aware of it and neutralize it. I mean, how do you move through these thoughts because they must they’re going to continue through, right? I mean, you’re your pattern that way at a starting point, there’s a trigger and then you reinforce that belief system.
Tanja Shaw [00:12:03] Exactly. And that’s exactly what happens is that you keep repeating the same patterns. Now the work that I do, and if we don’t get through things like I refer out to counselors, you therapists who work a lot more into the past, I work with my clients very based on like here and now and then moving forward and recognizing that just because we’ve been repeating the same patterns and this is so powerful when you really take this in that even if you gone, like have been binge eating for 20 years, even if you’ve had the same like a mother all on or all off, have a glass of wine and then like, you know, it doesn’t matter anymore. And I have no willpower. It doesn’t matter what has happened for years. You can right now decide to make a change. And that is the work that I do with my clients is to. And there’s a layering process. It’s not like we just have an intention. And then, you know, and it’s not like, it’s not like, you know, sunshine and rainbows, and we’re never going to have ups and downs, like, that’s not the reality of it. There is a layering process and it is a step by step process that you can’t just like because you can’t just go from one end of the spectrum to the other right away. But you absolutely can change what your history is, not your destiny. Your past does not predict your future unless you decide that’s going to. And as soon as you stop owning that past and stop making that your own story and you decide that you’re going to be the author of your own story, you’re not just the character, you’re going to rewrite it. You can move forward. And the power of that, just if being aware that you can is so it’s so powerful and so transformational. And like I said and I to say this one more time, that just because also right now that you decide you’re going to make that change doesn’t mean that all of a sudden you’re going to make the change and it’s going to you’re not going to go, you know, you’re never going to repeat the past behaviors again. It’s like, I think of it, like paddle boarding or learning how to play the piano. Like, allow yourself to be a beginner and you’re not going to just get out of power for your first time and crews are across the lake or you’re going to you’re going to fall it. And that’s OK. So don’t be so hard on yourself when you’re trying to to change these patterns, you are rewiring your brain. And that is a very powerful, very challenging thing to do is a lot easier to follow. A 21 day meal plan is to change your thought patterns.
Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:14:45] And I mean, changing your thought patterns at least takes 45 days. I mean, right? I mean, that’s that’s what I’ve seen. You know, to be able to really change those pathways. So it’s it’s much longer than quote unquote a 21 day meal plan. Double the time for sure.
Tanja Shaw [00:15:01] And the interesting thing about thoughts and you thoughts are going to they relate to how we feel. They relate to how we act and the crazy thing and say crazy, but fascinating thing is that our thoughts come up all the time and we often think things and because we think that we think of them as being truths. So let’s say. You have let’s talk about sugar cravings, because this is a big one right here, too, and there’s a lot of it’s a complex thing. It’s just like it was not, no, you know, one solution to this. There’s a lot of complexities when it comes to cravings and emotions and how our and our relationship with food. But let’s say every day at four o’clock, you go and you find yourself eating. I know the chocolate or the cookie or something like that. We have that craving. And there are physical reasons why we might create things as well. But our action of actually going there and getting the craving started with a thought and a thought might be. I’m really tired right now. I see a pick me up. Maybe it’s I’ve been good all day. Maybe it’s oh my gosh. Like, work sucks. I want to have a little bit of fun. What can be a crazy thing? So there is a thought attached, and then the thought makes us feel something sometimes nice the cravings. And sometimes it’s just the desire to have it. And then we act. And of course, if you do that over and over again, that’s going to impact your results of how you feel and that sort of thing as well. But the thoughts are just words. They’re just sentences. And when we think of them, we think them as if they are truths and they seem so real. And I cannot compare it to having a very bad dream. Like if I’m having a nightmare and I wake up and I’m all sweaty and I’m like panicky and I feel like my my my hurts. My heart is racing. And then I tell you that same dream or the nightmare that happened, you’re not going to have the same. A fact like you’re not going to be like, Oh, you guys, it was so scary because you probably think it was a pretty silly story that I’m telling you of my dream, but because I’m in it, because I’m experiencing it, it feels so real. And that’s how thoughts are. We think the thing and we we attach ourselves to them as if they are like that. There’s no other way like I’m telling myself, I want that chocolate right now that mean it must be true. I might be happy with chocolate, and we just keep going down that cycle instead of recognizing that bots are just thoughts, they just. Words. And that we can make thought errors all the time.
Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:18:05] Yeah. What would you? That’s amazing in in what would you tell somebody that even a step beyond that they’re so emotionally addicted to sugar that they can’t stop or they refuse to stop or. Sugar is the best part of their day or something that is even upper level.
Tanja Shaw [00:18:28] So really good question, and that’s actually there’s a lot of parts here when it comes, especially when it comes to sugar cravings because. For example, I mean, I’m going to just take things right back down to just basics, physiology and science. If your blood sugar levels are not balanced and your blood sugar levels drop, your body is hardwired for survival and it’s going to want something that usually carbohydrate based, simple sugar based to bring your blood sugar levels back up. And that’s just like not even talking about emotional eating, hearing that as a science. And so combining your proteins and your fats and having lots of non-starchy starchy vegetables can really help yourself help set yourself up for success. But the other thing I think the two big things when it comes to sugar cravings and wanting sugar, you said it was pleasure and sugar in our bodies is absolutely pleasurable and human beings are hard wired for pleasure. And so often we don’t give ourselves pleasure in our day. We overwork ourselves. We don’t give ourselves breaks. We are not nice to ourselves or always putting ourselves down and. We want sugar, because sugar is the one thing in our day that is actually going to be like exciting and delicious, and we want it. So a big part of like your desire to eat that sugar and often it’s at a specific time, like usually it’s a specific time of the day or there another trigger that happens. Maybe it’s when you’re alone and the kids are gone to bed and now you can like just relax your shoulders and take a deep breath and do something fun for yourself, which is often eating things like sugar, looking at your entire height as on your life and how it is on your day, and give yourself more like things that are enjoyable in your day. Like, that’s a huge reason why we seek out food is because we just need something. The other thing, if it’s not pleasure, is sometimes it’s because we need. Rest like this is a big one, and women especially. Feel guilty for taking rest. And so they’ll often eat because eating is doing something, it’s not resting. And that and also because when we’re tired, we tend to want more food as well as a just physically because we want to be had more energy. So that is another big reason as well. Sometimes we are feeling things like maybe we are stressed because we’re not nice to ourselves and we’re always putting ourselves down or we have busy days. So looking at your entire life and see how you can manage, you know, what’s going on in your life and what’s actually causing the trigger? The other thing you said there is I just wanted I can’t stop. I don’t I. I’m going to eat it. Those again are thoughts and just that thought that I can’t stop or I can’t manage this craving. Whatever you say to yourself is going to be a set of instructions to your body. So if you say, I can’t manage this, you’re not going to be able to manage it. So again, that’s thinking about your thoughts and how you’re actually speaking to yourself. Like I said at the beginning, this is not a checkbox like I’m going to use today, but simply to start to become aware of your thoughts is a huge step in the right direction. And just to recognize that, like whether you’re doing a journal and you just writing down the thoughts that you’re having, especially if it’s associated with specific habits that you’re wanting to break, just started to become aware of those thoughts is such a huge step. And the third thing when it comes to sugars specifically actually goes for things. I talked about blood sugar regulation. I talked about just our needs for pleasure, stress management, rest, that sort of thing. Our thoughts. The other thing is that the morality that we place against foods and we say things like sugar is bad for us. I can’t have sugar. And naturally, when we take things out and we restrict things, it’s human nature to want them. And now, instead of just eating the sugar and enjoying it and savoring it and loving it and like really enjoying the food, we’re eating it in a way that makes us feel bad. We have guilt attached to it. We have, you know, I should be doing this. All the thoughts and all that mind set, like the diet brain comes up and we start to feel that we feel guilty. We feel like we have no control. We feel moral like. Were morally we don’t feel good. And a big reason is because we’re not also in alignment with how we want to be. So we say we don’t want sugar, we want to be healthy, but yet we’re having all these cravings and there’s a bit of a misalignment of our identity and how we want to be, and that can be really uncomfortable in our body. And what do you do when like, something’s been bad is generally we punish that like and we punish as sometimes by binge eating because we want to feel so bad that I’m saying get out of my system and feel so sick that I’ll never want to do this again. Sometimes it’s because we feel like we’ll never have it again because it’s an off limit food that we want to eat all of it because we might not have it again. We might because we’re going to be good tomorrow. We’re going to be clean tomorrow. We’re going to be all on tomorrow. Sometimes also, we spiral into restriction, so we restrict sometimes we over exercise. So we’re trying to burn off all the calories and punish ourselves for the eating so that those are the things that really set the spiral. And I would say that last one of just the relationship with food is probably the biggest one that keeps us in the spiral of being on or off and having so much drama and emotion attached to the food that we’re eating.
Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:25:32] So many good points. So just to go back with the relationship with food and the restrictive nature of diets, we’re talking about AYP or paleo when we’re talking about keto low-FODMAP, low histamine, high carb, low fat, low sugar. I mean, take your pick of diets. Do you feel like in a person like this, having so many rules around eating is counterintuitive because the rules make you want to do the exact opposite.
Tanja Shaw [00:26:11] Absolutely. And here so here’s a thing, and this is I mean, you talked about some diet plans there too, and some like there is a need sometimes for therapeutic diets where like, here’s an example someone who has celiac is going to be restricting gluten, but the consequences of eating gluten is like so bad that you would never, ever want to touch it. And there are times and places for having therapeutic diets to heal something that’s been going on in your body. But when it comes to a healthy relationship with food, which I would think is if you’re dealing with this and struggling with this, there are people who do have healthy relationships of food naturally and have never dated, and they’ve just listened to the body and just don’t eat sugar because they just don’t feel good. And they’re. Not restricting it because they want to, you know, lose weight or because they think they’ve been bad or whatever, they just don’t want it. There are people out there like that. However, if you have gone through a cycle before. Chances are it’s not you. And the tempting thing is that we think that it works. We think that the keto diet work, we think that that 30 day cleanse worked because we felt so good when we were on it and we may have lost the weight and clears up. We feel like we were just like crushing it at that time. But all we’ve ever alert is to follow a set of food rules and not to pay attention to ourselves and to have a healthy relationship with food. So if you have gone through this before and you find yourself being on or off, it is so scary to stop dieting because we think that we need the food rules, we need the meal plan. We need all this to have control and to stop. That feels kind of like you’re jumping off a bridge and you’re going to go bungee jumping and there’s like nothing to hold on to. And it’s really quite frightening, and we want to grasp these diet plans so that they can kind of help us and guess for it. And there is definitely, I mean, in a room for nutrition and healthy eating and stuff like that, too. It’s igniting isn’t about just eating, you know, donuts for breakfast, lunch and dinner, because that’s not going to make you feel very good. But it’s about actually learning to listen to your body and to get rid of all the moralities around to get the bad foods because once we stop fighting food. There’s nothing to fight against anymore. And so much of our life, the turmoil around the relationship with food is that we’re just always fighting it. And once we just stop because it’s not going to fight back, the only reason why we’re fighting food is because we’re fighting food. Food isn’t feedback, it’s just it’s just food.
Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:29:23] And I think another great point that you brought up was, you know. At night, a lot of sugar cravings will happen. And I’m curious, you also brought up about pleasure through your day. Do you feel like people crave sugar a lot at night? There’s always a blood sugar piece. But do you think people also emotionally crave sugar at night because they feel like they have not gotten any pleasure out of their day? And is that the big driver? You look back at the end of it and at the end of the day and you say, Wow, that was tough for Wow, that was horrible or whatever it is, whatever your feeling is
Tanja Shaw [00:30:03] around it, it’s a big reason. I mean, there’s a lot like, say, it’s very complex, complex and you’re right, like blood sugar level is a huge thing as well. And sometimes it’s just habit because we’ve done it for so long that we just have trained ourselves to want that. But food is pleasurable and. There’s a in your reason that you want food at nighttime. There’s a reason for it, I think that’s also a really important point that the emotional eating and the emotional like look at it as a gateway to learn more about yourself and to dove into what we actually need because you need something, you’re not eating chocolate or the sleep of Oreo cookies or whatever. Because unless you’re actually physically hungry, which case you probably just want real food, you’re doing it for a reason. And you’re right, it’s sometimes it’s pleasure. And that’s a huge one. Sometimes it is because, well, this is kind of like pleasure as well. Like, we’ve just been so on all day that we just want to unwind. And we might have done it so often that we’re linking eating the food or drinking the wine or having the cookies or whatever to unwinding sometimes. Well, quite often, whether it’s the pleasure and winding or distressing, it’s to help cope with emotions. We feel like that might come up at nighttime as well. Sometimes is it’s loneliness. Sometimes it’s just way too late. Check out because you just want a break. There’s lots of different things that we need. So how can we get that without food or? If we’re going to choose to eat food, then actually, like, be present when you’re eating it. A big thing that happens is that, you know, if we decide that at nighttime we wanted something sweet or we wanted whatever it is, if we sat down and we really ate it mindfully, we really paid attention to it. We would actually get more sensations and more pleasure out of the feeling reading as well. Just that. So often we don’t. We eat it mindlessly. We eat it while we are on the TV or, you know, standing in the pantry and snacking on things because it doesn’t count or those kind of things as well. So there’s lots of different reasons. It’s complex. But I think the biggest takeaway is is to start by just recognizing that your body is doing it like you are doing it for a reason and your body is trying to do the very best it can for you. So don’t think about your body as like, you know, doing your body’s trying your body, trying to keep you alive. Your body is trying to meet its needs, and emotional eating or eating is the best way. It knows how to do that right now. So be kind to your body because she or he is trying her very best for you.
Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:32:58] And you also brought up another awesome point. He said, you know, a lot of times there’s mindless eating, especially sugar when someone’s tired and fatigued. What I have noticed, it’s been really interesting that was surprising to me is when I would tell somebody to take a vacation. What they generally do is they stay home from work and they clean out their garage. And that’s really not taking a vacation. So I actually had to clean up the language a little bit and say, when you take a vacation, you have to leave your house. And if you stay home, you really should not be like cleaning things out and doing laundry and doing this because I think that we feel like exactly what you said. We always feel like we need to be doing something to be productive, and we don’t feel like we need a rest. But rest is so critical to overall health. And I mean, you know, I personally rarely treat adrenals and practice our big buzz word. But I just think people need a vacation to go check out and to do those things that’s going to be way better than any supplement to take, because that’s just going to recharge your system so much more 100 percent.
Tanja Shaw [00:34:14] And you know, you’re right, like we don’t tend to value rest very much or always wanting to do. And just that act of eating like I said it before in the podcast is that is doing something so we don’t instead of just giving your body’s time to rest or just to say it may maybe something fun and we. Eat. And we’re not aware of it. Now here’s a secret mindlessly. It’s important, you know, it’s self-care. It’s one of a kind of a buzzword right now, too. But it’s so important because when you are whole, when you are meeting your needs, when you are able to handle your emotions, when you are able to communicate with people in your lives, when you’re able to give your body what it needs. We don’t tend to seek out food for much more than actual nourishment and a2z and pleasure as well, because a food is a source of pleasure and even to have a normal natural relationship with food. I still want you to get a lot of pleasure from the food that you’re eating because it’s delicious and it tastes good. So it is a source of pleasure. We just don’t want it to be like the only source of pleasure in our life. And if you are thinking that this might be, you don’t think that like anything is broken or that you’re alone and you’re like, Oh my gosh, I can’t really have like, no, you know, nothing in my life except to feel like it’s so common. And it’s just because we’re always like giving or we’re always doing and we’re always and we just need to just reconnect with ourselves and do more things that bring out, bring us to feel like we’re alive and bring more joy into our lives.
Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:36:04] I love that. And if somebody feels themselves doing this or not resting and or gravitating towards food late at night or feeling like they don’t want it, it’s the diet. They just want to be on this restrictive diet and this binge eating and then really restrictive. What would be some take home tips that you would send folks off with
Tanja Shaw [00:36:32] wells to stop that? Here’s the thing. No one help. No one stops until they’re easily hit rock bottom. Like there’s always there’s typically a rock bottom that you hit where you’re like, I cannot do this anymore. I call it diet rock bottom. Usually when you’ve just done it too many times and you recognize that you just cannot go on another diet anymore. But if you’re not quite there yet and you want to reduce binge eating, you want to reduce the R thing you want to reduce. You want to have that balanced relationship with food. If and if you’re not ready to like, ditch your restrictive diet at this point. The biggest thing I would say, and again, this is not an easy one to do, but is to let go of all the judgment of yourself as soon as we keep judging ourselves like it gets in the way all the time, it clouds us from being able to look at things objectively. We are no longer able to just like, look at things like, Hey, I’m eating at nighttime, I wonder why. And instead of having that curiosity, I like to have enough for us what I knew or my thinking. We’re just like Judge, Judge, Judge and check out. I’m going to go do it anyway. And then tomorrow is going to be a whole different day. So it’s this breeding ourselves, it’s putting ourselves down. It’s judging ourselves. That being so frickin hard on ourselves is the number one thing that gets in our way of making any progress, whether or not you want to give up dieting. And just like you’re really committed to having a more peaceful relationship with food or if you’re so like, now I’m going to do whatever plan you want to do, whatever it is. Just be like, be a little bit nicer to yourself. It will be so transformational. I’ll serve you in so many ways.
Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:38:20] Thank you. And where can people find you if they want to reach out to you?
Tanja Shaw [00:38:25] Oh, thank you. The best is likely they’re fit and vibrant. New podcast So since your podcast listener will always go to that one, I have a weekly show opening since two thousand fifty now. And yeah, just every Monday release an episode with some interviews, even on my podcast, which I have for that one. And that’s the best. And then other than that tenuous outcome. But once you get to the podcast, all the other links, you can find that from there as well.
Dr. Ann-Marie Barter [00:38:56] Thank you so much for being here today. Really appreciate your insight and knowledge. Yeah, thank you. If you enjoyed learning with us today, please give us a five star review. Comment like and share our podcast with your friends and family. As always, if you’d like to learn more information about today’s guest, please head over to FearlessHealthPodcast.com for links to their site and other educational resources.